The World Doesn’t Need Softer Men…It Needs Evolved Ones w/ Nick Matiash | S2E7

We keep telling men to “open up” and “be more emotional,” but that’s not the problem — and it’s definitely not the solution. Real strength isn’t found in suppressing feelings or turning men into girlfriends; it’s found in presence, purpose, and the courage to lead with heart and integrity. 

Lisa sits down with men’s coach Nick Matiash, founder of The Evolved Man, to dismantle outdated myths about masculinity, fatherhood, and emotional expression. Nick shares how breaking down on his kitchen floor with a newborn at home became the turning point that reshaped his understanding of what real manhood looks like — not fragile, not performative, but grounded. 

This conversation cuts through culture-war noise and gets to the truth: men aren’t broken, but what they’ve been taught about being a man is. 

If you’ve ever felt unseen by the men in your life — or wondered why connection feels so hard to build — this one’s for you.

Transcript

00:00:00:06 - 00:00:08:17
Music


00:00:08:19 - 00:00:36:02
Lisa Sonni
This is real talk with Lisa Sunny, Relationships Uncensored, the podcast. They don't want you listening to. I am the last person who would ever excuse men who are toxic, abusive, or just basically fail to show up for relationships. But the truth is, it's worth exploring why men are the way they are, why men have been taught what they've been taught, and really how all of these gaps affect relationships.

00:00:36:04 - 00:00:46:01
Lisa Sonni
So I have an amazing guest today, Nick Matiash from The Evolved Man. You are a men's coach, which is amazing. Tell us a little bit about you and your business, Nick.

00:00:46:04 - 00:01:06:21
Nick Matiash
Yeah, so I've been doing the evolved men and coaching men and now couples also within their relationships for the last 7 or 8 years. And honestly, it started from a place of my own, not demise. But I kind of witnessed in a moment that my emotions were trapped within my body. And once I released said emotions and felt good afterward, I realized maybe I should do this more often.

00:01:06:21 - 00:01:31:15
Nick Matiash
So I kind of went down this rabbit hole probably 7 or 8 years ago. It was around the time my daughter was, like three months old that I needed to work on these things. And then I started talking about them. And I have a history in past of being a teacher. So talking about what I was learning in ways that was accessible and helpful to other people became this thing that I get to now do as a profession, which is coach people and how to take care of themselves internally, but also to show up their their relationships a little more intently.

00:01:31:15 - 00:01:48:15
Nick Matiash
And kind of my emotional outburst, if you will, as my daughter was very young for the first three months of her life, and I was just the typical dude that didn't show it. Tough it out. Power through. And then I just kind of reached my breaking point and ended up in the fetal position, like crying my eyes out in our kitchen floor. Because I couldn't

00:01:48:15 - 00:02:04:04
Nick Matiash
I couldn't hold it in anymore. And then I felt great after I did that and I went to my wife and I'm like, I think I'm okay now. And she said, you were insane, like ten minutes ago. What happened? And like, I felt feelings and apparently I need to do that. So I it just made me very curious about. What am I missing?

00:02:04:09 - 00:02:21:00
Nick Matiash
What can I do better at? What can I do more consistently and the emotional intelligence aspect of the the process, which is now kind of at the heart of what I do with men is like, I just needed to figure it out for myself. And then I just started sharing that, and now it just gets to be what I help men and couples with is navigating all of those things.

00:02:21:00 - 00:02:25:19
Nick Matiash
And, yeah, it turned into a bit of a blessing, despite the fetal position in the middle of my kids.

00:02:25:19 - 00:02:45:16
Lisa Sonni
Yeah, crazy way to get there, but good for you. And more than anything, I love seeing when people take something that happened to them, something they've experienced and stumbling into a business, which actually I can relate to. But it's amazing to see your content. You know, for people that don't know who you are or follow you like your content is so great.

00:02:45:20 - 00:03:02:06
Lisa Sonni
And I know that it sort of speaks to women inadvertently. You are trying to speak to men, and I love that because I think men need this kind of messaging and maybe even permission to just feel feelings like it's it's a crazy thing. We all have them. Even men.

00:03:02:10 - 00:03:07:06
Nick Matiash
Yeah. It's true. Yes. It's not. It's not just for the girls. It's for the guys too. Right. It's

00:03:07:06 - 00:03:28:17
Lisa Sonni
for the guys. Do we can all have feelings. I you know, it's interesting. Men's take on feelings. I notice, you know, you get called a simp or you, you get made fun of for having feelings or you know, don't be so sensitive or like, bro's laughing at each other and hurting each other in so many ways. So even like within male friendships.

00:03:28:23 - 00:03:45:15
Lisa Sonni
But I think that men seem to have this view on what it is to be a man or a husband or a father. And I really want to talk about like those three things as three different things from the perspective of a man. What do you think you have grown up to believe about what those three things are?

00:03:45:18 - 00:04:04:11
Nick Matiash
You know, it's interesting. I have this kind of varied, experience of that, like my dad, excellent father, excellent human being, just like. But he wasn't constructive about how to be a man. It was just stuff that I witnessed, you know? He was present. He always was helpful. He was loving to my mom. Like, I had an incredible model.

00:04:04:11 - 00:04:20:13
Nick Matiash
And I kind of joke with my clients from time to time, like my dad showed me. I'm here to teach and talk and and educate because again, my background is is to be a teacher. So I'm taking Keith made Tasha's work and turning it into tangible things that everybody can and now learn. So I witnessed that which I'm very grateful for.

00:04:20:13 - 00:04:37:12
Nick Matiash
But I'm also well aware of the societal stuff around what it means to be a man. And I think even myself took on some of that through osmosis of just, oh, you need to be tough, you need to be strong, you need to not show your emotion. and then there's the layer of me that was very intentional about unpacking some of this stuff.

00:04:37:12 - 00:04:55:15
Nick Matiash
After I hit certain breaking points of understanding my emotions. And, and so I see kind of the clinical psychology and like psychological, impact of, of not working on your emotions. So there's, there's so many different layers to it, both through my own experiences, but also through what I've learned along the way. And it's very clear what the healthiest option is.

00:04:55:15 - 00:05:12:12
Nick Matiash
But there's there's just a lot of momentum behind the societal conditioning aspect or even just, you know, I know there's a lot of men that watched their dads maybe not have the representation that I had, and and the example that I had growing up, but it was much more like, suck it up. I don't want to hear you cry like you're a man.

00:05:12:12 - 00:05:32:06
Nick Matiash
You're we don't like pink. We don't like gay things. Whatever. Weird rhetoric is kind of just projected onto the sons of the next generation. I know a lot of guys saw that, witnessed that, and so it's much harder for them to grapple with the unpacking that I've been doing. Like it was easier for me to go there because I saw a guy that was doing that.

00:05:32:06 - 00:05:49:01
Nick Matiash
I just didn't understand it, like my dad was, you know, I would say emotionally intelligent. He was present. He was the guy that I try to coach people to becoming who I want to become. Right? But he wasn't openly educating me on that through words. It was just actions. So I, I did less resistance on my behalf, if that makes sense.

00:05:49:06 - 00:05:50:23
Nick Matiash
Yeah. There's just so much watching it.

00:05:51:02 - 00:06:07:08
Lisa Sonni
Right? Yeah. But watching it is, is so much better. You know, I always say you can teach your kids anything with words, but if your actions don't match your words, they're actually more likely to match your actions. So you can say like help your mom with the dishes, but like, you're not helping mom with the dishes. So does he really?

00:06:07:08 - 00:06:08:18
Lisa Sonni
I noticed he has to,

00:06:08:19 - 00:06:27:20
Nick Matiash
the the interesting thing about my journey is, like, I'm very aware of, the importance of feeling your emotions, talking about your emotions, articulating in. My wife and I have three kids and two boys. So, like, I like want to give to them all these resources and tools that I'm giving to my clients so that they don't have to go and do the work on their own

00:06:27:20 - 00:06:45:10
Nick Matiash
when they're older, that it'll be embodied. But what's funny is my oldest son, he's four. I noticed within the last year that when he feels big feelings, he like runs to the other room. He doesn’t want to show anybody. He is like, no, I'm okay. He does the tough it up like very standard masculine approach. And I was like, why?

00:06:45:10 - 00:07:05:03
Nick Matiash
Why is that happening? Because I'm I'm me. I'm the evolved man. Like, I know about this stuff and we're very open with our kids about like, feel your feelings, express yourself. Like, we'll figure it out. Whatever. But it wasn't until I was watching The Lion King with my son that I kind of figured out why he might, through watching me, not realize that feeling your feelings is okay.

00:07:05:03 - 00:07:23:04
Nick Matiash
Because there's the scene in The Lion King where Mufasa rescues Simba from the graveyard when the hyenas are about to get after him, and him and Simba and Nala had gone there without permission, and Rufus comes in and saves the day in this whole thing. And Mufasa says to somebody like, I'm very disappointed in you, like I did, I didn't. I told you you weren't allowed to go there.

00:07:23:04 - 00:07:41:21
Nick Matiash
It's like I just, I wanted to be brave and courageous like you. And you go, Simba, I only do that when I need to be. Like, I'm always scared. I was scared today. You went somewhere that was dangerous. And like, there was this moment where Simba realizes that his his dad is not a human. But like it is, isn't just this strength and power.

00:07:41:21 - 00:07:58:22
Nick Matiash
He's also this soft, loving thing that doesn't want to see his kid get hurt. I'm like, you know what? Whenever it hits the fan in my home, like he sees me calm, steady. I don't crack, I don't break because I'm steering the ship of our family. Right? Them. Me and my wife, we're handling it. We don't want our kids to feel those things.

00:07:58:22 - 00:08:17:16
Nick Matiash
So yes, we're feeling the tension, the anxiety, the overwhelm. And my wife and I can articulate and talk about that in private so that our kids feel okay. But my son never watches me sweat. He never witnesses me feel feelings. So when he stubs his toe, when he feels sad, when he feels scared, I'm okay. I'm fine. What do you mean I'm fine?

00:08:17:18 - 00:08:39:02
Nick Matiash
Because he. He sees me do that, you know? So it is very interesting that I know conceptually this is the healthy thing. But at the same time, like, I do need to make my kids feel safe and therefore he doesn't get to see me with the vulnerability that is required to like, model what what it looks like. So I have to be hyper intentional about, like, let's admit I feel feelings too.

00:08:39:07 - 00:08:55:18
Nick Matiash
Like I cried about this the other day. Like I felt this the other day. Like really breaking it down to help him understand. Like it's I'm I'm not this big, strong, tough guy all the time. I am for you because I have to be. But, you know, it's not something that I guess I just assume that since I do this stuff for a living, that he'll just pick it up. But.

00:08:55:18 - 00:09:13:03
Nick Matiash
Right. But he's only full time. We use only four. But like in real time, he doesn't witness me be the vulnerable, open, emotionally intelligent person that I am on the internet or the that I am in my work. He sees me like setting him for good or solid. I got right, right. It's just very interesting the play on that.

00:09:13:03 - 00:09:18:20
Nick Matiash
When I saw my son just actively trying to reject his emotions, I'm like, what's going on here? You're supposed to be good. Where

00:09:18:20 - 00:09:40:01
Lisa Sonni
does he do that? But you know, you're actually kind of talking about this interesting balance of being a father, being a man. Yeah. Men can show feelings and fathers are carrying the weight and, you know, being brave and moving forward. But how do you balance that? That's got to be hard. Like I actually as a as a raging feminist online, I can appreciate how hard it is to be a man.

00:09:40:04 - 00:10:06:07
Nick Matiash
Shockingly, you really get. It if it is. It's an interesting thing and I, I wouldn't trade it for the world though, like, I, I it is an honor to be the strong, steady hand for my kids and protect them and make them feel safe. And even at times my wife, my wife's an adult and she can handle her own, but she's also an anxious person and she's a warrior. And she has referred to me lovingly as like her, my human form of Xanax like you, that you just you steady me.

00:10:06:07 - 00:10:23:19
Nick Matiash
So I get to be that for her. I get to be that for my kids. I love that, but I also know that I need support systems so that I can have spaces to feel how I need to feel. So I have my own coach so I can vent and get things off my chest and feel things with him and my wife, when she's not feeling anxious, when she's not overwhelmed, is a very supportive human being

00:10:23:19 - 00:10:32:07
Nick Matiash
and has seen me cry. Seen me. We've seen me break. And so it is an interesting balance to to navigate, but I wouldn't trade it for the world.

00:10:32:08 - 00:10:48:05
Lisa Sonni
Yeah. I mean, I love that actually. And I love how your wife sees you because actually I really feel that way about my partner too. Like if I'm stressed out, he is where I can go to feel calm, which is not something that is common for me in previous relationships, but certainly in this one. And we talk about masculinity.

00:10:48:05 - 00:11:11:05
Lisa Sonni
I mean, he's helping me raise my own kids, one of which is a boy. And I think so much about what my son is learning. What is a man? What is a husband, what is a father? I heard somebody on mine to sort of really differentiate, like, these are three different things. And if you hit 18 and you're a man now, suddenly you're capable of being a man, being a husband, being a father, that's just not true because you need to learn things.

00:11:11:08 - 00:11:31:19
Lisa Sonni
I think with men what it is to be a man. This is obviously my female perspective on it. When boys are little, they're socialized so young to hide their feelings and they're socialized so young to not throw like a girl. I think about all these little tid examples, but how that translates into not liking women. And why can't men like women?

00:11:31:19 - 00:11:41:20
Lisa Sonni
Why can't we be friends? It's it's bizarre. Yeah, but I get it, I get I get the conditioning that happens. But how does that hurt men? All of that childhood conditioning? How does it hurt men when they're older?

00:11:41:22 - 00:11:58:10
Nick Matiash
Well, yeah, I think there is a layer of, like you're saying, this disconnect or feeling like we need to be separate or even sometimes hating women, like, I don't want to be like you, like you're not me and I'm not you. And yeah. Hey, cool. Apples and oranges were different people. We're all humans, but we have different approaches. Like, I'm cool with that.

00:11:58:13 - 00:12:19:17
Nick Matiash
I think the biggest thing that I've witnessed in terms of that conditioning and how it harms men, and I say this all the time to my clients like we if you think about like a, a thoroughbred horse, what they are raised to do is to run fast and like that's their job. That's what they've been raised to do this we've been trained to do, I think a lot of boys and then men are trained on stuff your feelings down. I don't care.

00:12:19:19 - 00:12:39:06
Nick Matiash
Move, be strong, do the work. And as they get into to manhood, make the money, take care of the family financially. Like all of these very old school values. Even if it's 2025, they're still here. They're still around. Right. And so thinking about that thoroughbred horse idea, like you've been trained for this one thing, this one thing, it's not racing for us.

00:12:39:06 - 00:12:55:04
Nick Matiash
It's basically be a physical specimen. Do the work with your body to make money for your family. Be strong. But everything else outside of that is not really a priority. So ignore it. Right? And so then they grow up and they get into adulthood and they naturally find people. They meet people, they fall in love, they build families.

00:12:55:06 - 00:13:16:00
Nick Matiash
And the way that I refer to it is like emotions are the language of relationships. Like if you don't understand your own emotions, you're not going to be able to like engage with people in a meaningful way. You're going to feel like at an arm's length, right? So if you spent your entire life on 25 years of your life being told, understood, like my job is to move, move, move, make money, do those things.

00:13:16:05 - 00:13:34:01
Nick Matiash
Emotions are over here. Don't care about them. They're not important. And then you get married. You fall in love like there's a conceptual part of you that's like, I love this person. I care about this person. But you don't have the language. You don't have this emotional intelligence skill set of like, oh, I feel anxious. And that's why I'm reacting this way.

00:13:34:02 - 00:13:52:15
Nick Matiash
And maybe that's not her fault after all. Maybe this is me. Or as I say to guys all the time, the more you understand it for yourself, the more you'll see it in others. So like, I understand how I look and feel when I look overwhelmed. So when I look at my wife and I'm like, okay, something's happening there because I know what it looks like, I have an idea because I've processed it on my own.

00:13:52:19 - 00:14:11:06
Nick Matiash
And so like, I think that is the greatest deficit that happens is there are well-intentioned men that really do want to build beautiful families and love their wives, but they get to that threshold of like, okay, I do care about this person. I said I wanted to commit to a lifetime with them. I don't know how to make this work. So because I don't know how to connect with them,

00:14:11:06 - 00:14:26:13
Nick Matiash
I, I have very a low bar, a low skill set of like how do I how do I make her feel loved? How do I make my kids feel appreciated? And how do I how do I do all of that? And so it's a lot of catch up, like most of my clients are 45, 50, 55 years old.

00:14:26:16 - 00:14:43:21
Nick Matiash
They're waking up to the realization that I've tried everything. I've tried making more money to make them happy. I've tried taking them on vacations to make them happy. I've tried buying a nicer house, moving to a nicer school district, going across the country and doing cool stuff like all the things that are in the wheelhouse of what men think are really cool, connected things.

00:14:43:21 - 00:15:01:09
Nick Matiash
I've tried all of it. It didn't seem to work. You're stupid. TikTok's I've opened my eyes that maybe there's something else there. And so now they're like, doing this retroactive, like, okay, there's something I'm missing. It seems to be this emotional element that my wife keeps talking about. And I clearly have not had enough capacity for. So here I am trying to figure it out now.

00:15:01:11 - 00:15:13:18
Nick Matiash
I would love and I've had conversations with like younger guys too. I love when I engage with like a 20 year old or a 23 year old, and they're like, I want to figure this out now. I'm like, dude, cool, I'll give you a discount. I'll cut it in half. Like, let's do it.

00:15:13:18 - 00:15:15:05
Lisa Sonni
Amazing. Yeah. Get the.

00:15:15:05 - 00:15:16:03
Nick Matiash
Young.

00:15:16:05 - 00:15:16:14
Lisa Sonni
Yeah.

00:15:16:14 - 00:15:33:15
Nick Matiash
Because there is so many. So like 98% of my clients are older than me. Have spent more, more. You know, years in marriage than I have. But they're recognizing that that skill set that I'm able to articulate fairly well through my content, they're like that. That's the thing that I haven't tried, and it seems to be the biggest gap I have.

00:15:33:15 - 00:15:47:08
Nick Matiash
And I think it's mainly due to the conditioning of like, who are my who am I supposed to be as a man? And we just leave out these emotional elements that have a huge say in how your relationships go? And I said to me, to be honest with you.

00:15:47:12 - 00:16:06:10
Lisa Sonni
I completely agree with you that it's sad. I feel like all of those things that you're describing, you know, I hear so many men in my comment sections popping off about like, I've tried everything and nothing I ever do is good enough. My audience is women who've been in toxic, abusive relationships or are in one currently, and you always hear the same thing.

00:16:06:10 - 00:16:23:09
Lisa Sonni
Like, everything I try isn't good enough, and the sort of I want to call it playing the victim. There's two types of men, of course, the ones that really do feel that they're doing their best, and then some that are just absolute liars and abusers. And I, I do want to separate those two groups of people. I think you deal with men who are open.

00:16:23:12 - 00:16:41:06
Lisa Sonni
I deal with the men who are not open. Women need to be able to sort of tell the difference. But I think men who just immediately like, I'm trying everything and she never listens and nothing I ever do is good enough. A lot of what they're trying is transactional buying the house, spending the money, taking them on the vacation, providing and so on.

00:16:41:06 - 00:16:57:23
Lisa Sonni
But you're not involved in your relationship. You are not participating in your family, in what you signed up for. And women feel alone and men think women are just nags and like bottomless pits of wanting emotions. But how do you bridge that when you talk to men?

00:16:58:01 - 00:17:18:23
Nick Matiash
Yeah, I mean, I think you kind of hit it on the head there because I receive a lot of pushback and comment sections from from men as well as I talk about like, hey, mental loads important or emotional intelligence is important. These things that are pretty foreign to a lot of guys. And and they'll say, like, I've tried everything and they usually list them off and it's like, oh, I work 70 hours a week and I take the kids on vacation twice a year,

00:17:18:23 - 00:17:38:23
Nick Matiash
and I and like it's it's tangible, tangible, tangible, tangible, tangible. Their list is all tangible things that they can do with their time and their energy, which is fair. But none of what they've listed is having the emotional courage to look across at your wife and lean that way, instead of just focusing on what can I do? What boxes can I check?

00:17:38:23 - 00:17:55:23
Nick Matiash
And I said this with plenty of guys like, here's a list of things that you could do that I'm sure would be appreciated. The most important thing that you need to do within your relationship is do the uncomfortable work of connecting with your wife over here, rather than doing all this stuff out here in the world and bringing it back to her and saying, are you proud of me?

00:17:56:00 - 00:18:14:03
Nick Matiash
Do you like me? Do you love me like all of that? Nobody's going to say, please stop working because I don't like eating or I don't like you providing for our family. That's not a thing. But you can do that while also, you know, pouring into asking, asking how they're doing, trying to be vulnerable and open up to them or be supportive of how they're doing.

00:18:14:03 - 00:18:33:05
Nick Matiash
Like, all of that can still live in the same space. And I think a lot of guys just feel very justified in those tangible items, because it is a lot like it is a lot for me to to run my business and to take the kids to school and make dinners and do dishes and do all these things that I do happily for my family, I could very easily check it all off and be like, I should be appreciated

00:18:33:05 - 00:18:49:07
Nick Matiash
more. No, I'm not going to play that game. It's not fair. So I think, yeah, it's mainly getting getting them away from the tangible things and asking like what intangible work have you done with your wife? Have you checked in with her and seeing how her day is going? Have you opened up to her and talked about your stresses and your overwhelms?

00:18:49:07 - 00:19:10:10
Nick Matiash
And there are like real stories from guys that I think, you know, there's a layer that we'll maybe get to here where because men have been so stunted in their emotional capabilities due to societal conditioning, women walk through the same society and watched the men around them. The boys around them be conditioned in that way. So there is a little bit of an element of they don't expect men to be emotionally capable.

00:19:10:10 - 00:19:27:23
Nick Matiash
And so when a guy does bring their emotions to the table, obviously in a healthy way, because we're not shouting, screaming, punching walls, that's stupid. But like, if you do talk about like, hey, that what you said, you kind of hurt my feelings because there's a lack of expectation or feeling like guys actually have emotions that would be expressed because we've got a long standing record of not expressing them.

00:19:27:23 - 00:19:42:20
Nick Matiash
A woman's ability to hold space for a guy's emotions sometimes is a little wonky. And so, yeah, it's it's a little muddled, in terms of like, I'll tell them like, just go tell them how your day is going. And like, I've tried that. And then she told me to man up and get back to work. And I'm like, okay, well, that's not fair.

00:19:42:22 - 00:19:46:10
Nick Matiash
That's something there that we need to work on. It's.

00:19:46:12 - 00:20:04:03
Lisa Sonni
Agreed it's. A lot. You know, the, the, the reasoning behind that. Like, I'm never going to blame women for men not being able to share their feelings because it does track back to the patriarchy. But we all live in this patriarchy, as you pointed out. So, yes, when men say things like, you know, I share my feelings and she doesn't accept it, she rejects it.

00:20:04:03 - 00:20:23:22
Lisa Sonni
She I think that sometimes men are perceiving that and it's not what's happening. And sometimes men are right. But again, can we step back and look at we are all participating in a system that hurts men and women. I would argue I don't even actually, I don't know if the patriarchy hurts men or women more, like it hurts them in such different ways.

00:20:24:00 - 00:20:42:02
Lisa Sonni
I think, you know, if you're speaking about violence, sure, I'm sure it it hurts women more. But emotionally, the impact is hurting everybody. Men often want marriage and want kids, but then they have negative feelings about women, negative feelings about relationships. You hear so many men like this is why men are choosing to be single.

00:20:42:04 - 00:20:43:07
Nick Matiash
But yeah,

00:20:43:09 - 00:21:03:04
Lisa Sonni
and citing women's lack of accountability or women's entitlement, I find that astounding. Sometimes when I see these comments, because to me the entitlement is more often than not, not always coming from men. The entitlement that just like I'm 30, I should have a wife and kids. Why not? I have a job. What does that mean? Are you. Right?

00:21:03:08 - 00:21:11:01
Lisa Sonni
Are you the man that Nick is describing here? Right? Or are you? What have you done to earn that? Sure. And why? Why does anybody have to earn a good partner? We should.

00:21:11:05 - 00:21:28:02
Nick Matiash
Yeah. Yeah. I think the, you know, the entitlement comes from like, I did the job that society told me I was supposed to do, so. Right. Where's mine? What more do. You want. For them? I got, you know, I've done I've done the thing I've got I've got my big boy job, I've got a house and I've got a car and I'm stable.

00:21:28:02 - 00:21:46:22
Nick Matiash
So I should have a viable partner. They should be lining up around the corner. And right. It cool. But like to keep a partner and to have a sustainable, meaningful relationship. There is a set of skills that are needed. going back to what you were saying about like there's these three categories. There's man, husband, father. There are plenty of good men that are terrible partners.

00:21:47:01 - 00:22:07:06
Nick Matiash
Like if I meet them out in the world because like, I hopefully they don't watch, they probably won't. I have friends that they if I called them at 2 a.m. because I, I had a flat tire or there was something an emergency I live an hour and a half away from most of my good friends. Half of them would get up out of their bed and come and be there for me, because they are supportive and they take care of their people and they're good men.

00:22:07:06 - 00:22:27:23
Nick Matiash
But do they know how to sit in a hard conversation with their wives? Maybe not. Do they know how to you know, carry that mental labor and load in and understand that there is a place where we can allocate a little bit more effectively. So it's not weighing all on on our wives, right. Probably not. Like it's it's not just I do good things and I'm not a terrible person and I don't cheat on my wife.

00:22:27:23 - 00:22:46:12
Nick Matiash
So I therefore am a good husband, like, you know, good husbands are intentional and they are purposeful with what they're doing, not just around their wives or for their family, but like directly to your wife. How do you show up for her? How do you pour into her? And it's it's like an interesting phenomenon that, like, you get so caught up in, like, I am a good man.

00:22:46:17 - 00:22:59:13
Nick Matiash
I'm not a criminal. I am a good, you know, good citizen. I take care of the people around me. But, like, doesn't doesn't mean that you're good with the skill set of being a partner to a person. And it's. I mean, I guess I'll be beaten that drum for the rest of my life.

00:22:59:17 - 00:23:21:20
Lisa Sonni
It's a problem for them, but it's so it's so interesting, though. You're touching on something so interesting with what I see in men of like, I have the job. I, you know, I'm, I'm not a criminal. I dress okay, I'm and they sort of rattling this off as if those attributes entitle you to have a partner and to have children with someone when women are looking for more.

00:23:22:01 - 00:23:39:05
Lisa Sonni
This whole thing that you hear a lot of men like, feminism is ruining the world. Women want too much these days. Women used to basically want nothing, or I actually want wouldn't be the right word, but we weren't able to necessarily have it. Like way back when you didn't have rights, you couldn't have a bank account. You needed it.

00:23:39:07 - 00:24:02:13
Lisa Sonni
I think the difficult thing for men now is that women don't need men for shelter, money and so on. And so you have to want them. And this whole thing of like, what do I need to do to be desired by someone? I mean, even when you're talking about physical intimacy, how do you, quote, make her interested in this with you as opposed to just you're entitled to it?

00:24:02:17 - 00:24:12:23
Lisa Sonni
What makes a man a good partner? If you could list like, I don't know, three skills or just a handful of skills that men need to be a good husband specifically, what do you think those are?

00:24:13:03 - 00:24:32:14
Nick Matiash
I mean, the first one is the ability to, I say this, the ability to hear feedback without either running away from it or getting defensive in response, saying, like, I use this analogy all the time because a lot of dudes watch sports. But the best athletes baseball, hockey, football, like the ones that everybody, all the dudes Revere.

00:24:32:14 - 00:24:49:01
Nick Matiash
Like they have their jersey with their name on the back, and they cheer for this guy every Sunday or whatever. Like the reason that they're really good is because they're able to hold the tension in difficult moments when everybody else will fold and everybody else is going to run away from those moments. Everybody else is going to, like, freak out and not be able to perform.

00:24:49:01 - 00:25:06:12
Nick Matiash
The best athletes, the Hall of Famers, they hold the tension and they respond thoughtfully, purposefully to whatever needs to happen. Right. And so I, I explain that to them, like, you Revere this guy on Sundays when you watch football, I need you to bring the same energy to the conversations you have with your wife because the tension she is presenting to you, it's feedback.

00:25:06:12 - 00:25:25:14
Nick Matiash
It's critiquing. Is it landing perfectly? Is she delivering it with such grace that it's impossible to know? She's human, she's messy, everybody's messy. But like, one of the to your point, like the skill set is, can you hold the tension? Can you hear what she's saying to you without feeling like you need to attack back or shutting down and running away?

00:25:25:14 - 00:25:41:08
Nick Matiash
Because that is what sustains relationships? You're going to disagree. You're going to have some feedback for each other. You're going to have to, you know, figure out some stuff. And more often than not, the guys that find themselves in chairs opposite me as a client, the one of the main things that they can't figure out is that I'm always defensive.

00:25:41:11 - 00:25:59:16
Nick Matiash
I'm always ready to respond. I'm always like justifying my actions like that, being able to just take a step back, breathe and respond and have a conversation rather than making it bigger than it needs to be or running away. That's a skill set that I mean, benefits in life. But in your relationship specifically? So that one's top of mind.

00:25:59:16 - 00:26:17:16
Nick Matiash
Second one is I mean, it contributes to the first one, but emotional intelligence, it's it's good for you. It's good for your own processing. So you're not carrying the weight of the world around or at least perceiving that you have to. But to what we were saying before earlier, you know, you will be able to see and witness it within others once you understand it. For yourself.

00:26:17:19 - 00:26:39:10
Nick Matiash
it's just how it works. So if you work on yourself consistently enough and thoughtfully enough, when your wife is feeling something, or if your daughter is feeling something, son is feeling something instead of doing to them what you do to yourself, which is shove it down, act like it's not a big deal. Gaslight you or I mean men are the gas letters of all gas lighters when it comes to their own emotional experience,

00:26:39:13 - 00:27:05:13
Nick Matiash
they're overwhelmed and stressed. No, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. It's not. It was not a real thing. And so since they do that to themselves when their wives are feeling stressed, it's fine. What do you. What are you doing? So like that? Removing that is really just understanding your own self because the, the only knee jerk response that is required, or the only way that that actually happens to push back and to gaslight your partner when they're feeling something is you don't know how to feel your own stuff, and it scares the hell out of you.

00:27:05:16 - 00:27:15:06
Nick Matiash
So if you can get better at feeling your own stuff, you're probably going to have a better chance at giving them space for their own things. So those are top two. I'm sure there's more things in there, but those are the top two. Yeah.

00:27:15:07 - 00:27:38:04
Lisa Sonni
I mean, and those are massive, I would say. But you know what I see when I'm talking to women about their and again, it's abusive and toxic relationships is they don't listen like you can give him feedback and he flips it on you. Blame shifts all those things. So that is a really good sign, in my opinion, that this person is not capable of being a good husband, at least not right now.

00:27:38:06 - 00:27:54:09
Lisa Sonni
And if they're not changing when you address it, I think that's a really good sign that they're not even interested to change. And for me, I don't like investing time and energy in a person who is not interested in change. If you don't want to do better, like a man who's like, okay, let me let me take that.

00:27:54:09 - 00:28:10:17
Lisa Sonni
Let me think. Let me hire a coach, let me go work with Nick. That's a good sign. But somebody who's just like, nope, shuts it down and always tells you your feelings are ridiculous when they do it to themselves as well. Which is kind of interesting that men do it to themselves, and that's maybe even what makes them do it to their partners.

00:28:10:22 - 00:28:31:04
Nick Matiash
That's for sure. I mean, if you're scared of your own emotions, what are you going to do when your wife is feeling frustrated, annoyed, stressed? You're going to try to convince her that what she's feeling isn't real or blow up the situation, get angry so it never has to be talked about again. Because as human nature would have it, if you get aggressive and angry every time someone feels something like they're not going to want to share that with you anymore.

00:28:31:05 - 00:28:40:20
Nick Matiash
So you've you've done yourself the service of not having to deal with it by teaching them that you're not a safe person for that. Which is tragic in its own right.

00:28:41:01 - 00:28:59:00
Lisa Sonni
It is. Do you sort of see that almost as self-sabotage in some ways, like men are sabotaging their own relationships by clinging to these, you know, stoic, outdated roles that men have toxic masculinity, which harms men. Let's be clear. But then they blame women for being unhappy. They blame women for nagging.

00:28:59:00 - 00:29:18:22
Nick Matiash
Sure. I mean, yeah, it is a form of self-sabotage. it is interesting. Like there are so many guys that present traits that I would say, are you know, toxic masculinity. You're doing the old school stuff. You're feeling like she should take care of all this stuff. That's all men. But when I when I get to know them, like I can tell they genuinely they they love their wives. They care about this person.

00:29:18:22 - 00:29:45:21
Nick Matiash
They care about the family that they're building. Like that is I think that's what gets lost in, you know, the the minute long videos of the internet, like you and I are both partaking in. But like, there's nuance and there's context that's that's beyond the talking points. And there's these guys that come in and hang out with me, or even ones that I have conversations with after they've been a little flustered in my comments and we take it offline and I'm like you, you genuinely care about your person and everything that you're doing is sabotaging the relationship.

00:29:46:00 - 00:29:58:05
Nick Matiash
And the reason that my content triggered you is because you can see it and it pisses you off. And that's fair. But let's figure out how to actually solve the problem. Instead of making me or your wife the enemy Yeah. That's

00:29:58:05 - 00:30:19:00
Lisa Sonni
huge. Oh, my God, that's so important. You know, you've had me think of this question here. Where would you say you personally draw the line between a man who is immature, a man who just doesn't know any better, who I'll maybe even say is toxic, but willing to learn versus an abusive man who just chooses not to care and will never be different. And stuff

00:30:19:02 - 00:30:39:14
Nick Matiash
I would, I kind of lean on the mantra of like trust the pattern, not the person. Like if there is a long standing pattern of just like no glimmers of hope, no nothing. I, I was talking to a woman yesterday, whose interested in doing some couples coaching and, and I was like, asking her about the patterns of their marriage and how willingly he would show up to things and how it just like different things.

00:30:39:14 - 00:31:00:20
Nick Matiash
And there was like, good ten years plus of dismissal, no acknowledgment, no appreciation, and all of this stuff and like that to me, like when you have a timeline where the pattern is the pattern is the pattern, that's where it's like, okay, Like, that is not healthy. And I even told the woman I was like, listen, I have some resources that I can give to you that I would say, like explore it. But 1 or 2 things are going to happen after you do it.

00:31:00:23 - 00:31:18:10
Nick Matiash
You're either going to know that you want to fight for this marriage, or it's going to be very clear that you can't and you shouldn't. And my gut says it's probably the latter. My hope is that it's not. But based on the patterns, it seems like there is no way out for him to change that because he is this person and he's not willing to see it differently.

00:31:18:12 - 00:31:36:08
Nick Matiash
But whereas, like, there's plenty of guys I talked to another one today where there is intermittent patterns or desires to change and figure it out, but their humanness and their conditioning kind of forces them to come back down and anchor back down into old stuff that's not helpful or useful. So like the pattern usually goes something like this.

00:31:36:08 - 00:31:50:04
Nick Matiash
Their wives tell them that they're unhappy, that they think that if we don't figure it out, we got to leave it. We gotta leave it. Right? So the guy's like, okay, I do care about you. I'm going to figure this out. And then it's like a hard sprint for 2 to 3 weeks, a month, two months. Life comes at them or it gets busy.

00:31:50:06 - 00:32:06:06
Nick Matiash
Kid stuff is chaotic, as as we all know. And because there's stress and pressure from life, you kind of default to the patterns that are easiest to, to access. So he goes back to being a little bit more distance, not as communicative, not as these things. And so now we're at the bottom of the bottom of the roller coaster again.

00:32:06:11 - 00:32:27:03
Nick Matiash
And she says, hey again I'm, I'm not happy. I go, you know what? Okay. Got it. And then he's locked back in. And so it's like that pattern to me tells me it's a guy that is flawed and perfect, but wants to figure it out, just doesn't have maybe a skill set or the education to make it sustainable. Whereas a guy that has no willingness, that will always find a way to spin it.

00:32:27:03 - 00:32:42:10
Nick Matiash
So he's not the one that has to do any of the work like, not that I don't have any hope for them, and not that I wouldn't help him if he gotten in a chair and wanted to do the work. But like, I don't have time and patience to force him to be ready for it. That's something that life is going to have to confront him with, you know?

00:32:42:10 - 00:33:01:09
Lisa Sonni
Agreed. And it's interesting you don't have the time and patience. The wife may also not have the time and patience, although I do think that too many women have patience, like endless degrees of patience for men who say that they want to do better. Like, I love this analogy that you're using the sort of roller coaster, but I think where there's like it's tricky, right?

00:33:01:09 - 00:33:20:03
Lisa Sonni
Especially you are coaching people. You're not in their marriage. There are men that say they want to do better and go, oh yeah, you're right, you're right. You told me that bothers you and then they come back up. But they're never really going to change. They're actually trying. I think they're buying the way for women to know that is the pattern.

00:33:20:03 - 00:33:38:09
Lisa Sonni
What you said, the pattern if it's constantly oh, I'm going to try better try, try and it never you rarely see, I don't want to say never because some of these women are like, no, but he really did seem nice in an abusive relationship. The niceness, that kindness that we sometimes see, it only exists to facilitate the bad.

00:33:38:14 - 00:33:58:22
Lisa Sonni
It keeps you trying and trying to, I don't think I wish there was like a timeline of like, keep trying for six months or three years or there's no number you got to go off of feeling. But I think that women, people but women have a little bit of intuition enough to know, like this, this guy's not going to change, and men can change and people can change.

00:33:58:22 - 00:34:14:22
Lisa Sonni
But some people are so stuck in their entitlement and just so stuck in their view. And it benefits. A lot of abusive people benefit from their abuse. So why would they ever stop? But it does benefit them to pretend you got gotta. Yeah. Look inside yourself. And really.

00:34:14:22 - 00:34:35:11
Nick Matiash
I've also witnessed and worked with a lot of guys that have changed after that. There has been a pattern interruption aka divorce or separation or something. And I have said this to plenty of people and I think you kind of just was dancing around it, too. It's like women are a little more, you know, if we were to generalize a little more intuitive guys are more tangible and concrete oriented.

00:34:35:11 - 00:34:50:16
Nick Matiash
Right. And so I have said to plenty of women that have like, come for a couple's consult with me and like, I hate to say this out loud to you, but there's a lot of guys that won't change until there is some concrete thing that has disrupted their day to day. Like if you're still sleeping in bed next to him, if you're still in the home with him,

00:34:50:16 - 00:35:05:21
Nick Matiash
if you are still acting and going through the motions of like, we got to get our kid to school, we have to get our kid to practice. Since his tangible life has not changed and he has to make arrangements to adjust to this new, tangible thing, there's no reason for him to wake up to it because of that lack of intuition.

00:35:05:21 - 00:35:30:05
Nick Matiash
Whereas there's, you know, women or more emotionally intelligent people that can kind of see the writing on the wall, and maybe they don't want to trust it, maybe they don't want to jump into, you know, making a change if it's not there yet. But want to change it before it breaks, like there's plenty of more women that are willing to seek therapy, seek counseling before there is incredible damage within the relationship because they can see like things aren't going well.

00:35:30:05 - 00:35:48:02
Nick Matiash
I want to prevent guys are more reactive. It's like we've crossed the threshold of she wants to move out now that she's got divorce attorneys on her phone. Now, I know my tangible stuff is changing. Now I'm ready to do something and it sucks. It's terrible for, I mean, for for the women for sure, but for the guys too.

00:35:48:02 - 00:35:52:04
Nick Matiash
Like, can you wake up faster? It's like there's this person, like, just say you care about.

00:35:52:04 - 00:36:10:17
Lisa Sonni
It's right here. It's infuriating because you don't see it. Yeah, but you know, we say this a lot like, you know, there's a consequence leaving. She leaves you. That's that's a consequence when she's laying next to you. And this is I say this to women all the time. You don't make him change in the sense that you. And I'm not blaming women.

00:36:10:17 - 00:36:28:03
Lisa Sonni
Please hear me. This is not women's fault. But women do this, that we're like, maybe he's traumatized. Maybe he's toxic. Maybe he needs a therapist, a coach. So you try and you keep trying. But as you keep trying, you lay next to him and you tolerate and enable some of this really bad behavior. And then one day you decide to leave.

00:36:28:07 - 00:36:46:20
Lisa Sonni
Suddenly he wants to change. I think, again, there's this sort of thin line of like, is that the thing that woke him up? We want to think that these some men can have epiphanies, which some do, but there are some where they only beg you back after you threatened divorce or filed for divorce because their life has now been interrupted.

00:36:47:01 - 00:36:54:20
Lisa Sonni
Now there's a consequence. They didn't care when you were crying. Now it affects them, now they care. That is an abusive man in my opinion.

00:36:54:22 - 00:37:16:05
Nick Matiash
And no, I agree. And the tough part is like there is no way to explicitly tell which one is which. Like is it? Is it the real guy that's like, okay, well, I need to change. I need to figure this out. I clearly have been doing some wrong things. They'll come and hang out with me like they know that they can't do it on their own, that they know this not it's not just a flash in the pan that I need to change for this month.

00:37:16:05 - 00:37:40:04
Nick Matiash
And she'll come back. Like, if you're going to hang out with me, you're going to hang out with me for a while, right? So those types of guys, maybe there's that significant, I'm going to do this thing differently to show her, demonstrate to her that I want to move differently. But in either case, like that wake up call after the fact of some tangible change, it looks the same to if you're an abuser that's just buying time, or if you are or not and you're genuine and you're like, oh, I'm an idiot, I need to figure this out.

00:37:40:04 - 00:37:43:04
Nick Matiash
Now that she said she's leaving circumstantially looks exactly the same.

00:37:43:04 - 00:38:05:08
Lisa Sonni
Unfortunately it does. So I tell women, though, like to make this decision on your own. if you continue to see not trying inaction. Yeah. Then this is not a toxic man. It's an abusive man. I think toxic men, or even good men who are misinformed or don't have the right tools are men that come see you. Toxic can change, hurt, traumatized that can change.

00:38:05:08 - 00:38:28:08
Lisa Sonni
Abusive. They're not going to change. So you'll you'll continue to see that pattern. I think women are waking up to it. The more I'm making content and other people are making content, but I am. I'm just happy that men that content like yours exists so that men have access to that, to see what a good man looks like and how to treat your wife, and how to be happy and how to be how for heat, for him to be happy

00:38:28:11 - 00:38:32:12
Lisa Sonni
like I want that for men, because if they're happier, we're all happier, in my view.

00:38:32:13 - 00:38:58:06
Nick Matiash
I know, like I try to argue with them like, hey, like, listen, the things that you have been told to chase your whole life. So going back to the whole tangible thing, okay, like make money. Cool. Check. Have a house, kids, family, beautiful wife. I have all these things and I'm happier because I am emotionally intelligent and pour those things into the people and things that I care about, you know, like so at the end of the day, what every guy that I've ever met is chasing like I have.

00:38:58:06 - 00:39:16:04
Nick Matiash
And I'm not saying that that makes me cool or anything, but like, it's not an accident. It is cause in effect, like, I was doing this for a long time and I cared about it enough to pour it into the people that I care about. And so I have great kids. They're fantastic. I have a wife who loves me, is obsessed with me. That's her words, not mine.

00:39:16:06 - 00:39:18:23
Nick Matiash
Like it's. And she's so beautiful.

00:39:19:04 - 00:39:37:00
Lisa Sonni
Holy hell, your wife is beautiful. When I almost I gasped when I saw your wife online, I was like, God, Holy hell, she's beautiful. Good for you. Yeah, but that to me, I'm like, that's what the saints get, right? You're a simp, right? So you have a beautiful wife and a beautiful marriage and wonderful kids and a great business,

00:39:37:02 - 00:39:39:10
Lisa Sonni
and you're like, sure, call me what you want. I'm happy.

00:39:39:13 - 00:39:51:18
Nick Matiash
I'm okay. I'm doing fine now. It's so funny because they'll just, you know, they'll they'll see all the things that we've just kind of spoken to and like. Yeah, she probably walks all over you. Yeah, yeah. Whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm completely fine. Yeah. Okay.

00:39:51:18 - 00:39:52:00
Lisa Sonni
Yeah.

00:39:52:06 - 00:39:52:17
Nick Matiash
That's whatever.

00:39:52:18 - 00:40:10:06
Lisa Sonni
It's wild. But so on that topic of what men say, I'm going to take you to my, my little segment called Real Talk. From the comments, I'm going to read you three comments. This is from my comment section. I know your comment sections look similar, so let's let's get into the first one. Sure. This whole idea that men need to be more emotional is ridiculous.

00:40:10:06 - 00:40:19:06
Lisa Sonni
The world doesn't need more sensitive men, it needs strong ones. If women want therapy, they should go to therapy instead of trying to turn their husbands into their girlfriends.

00:40:19:11 - 00:40:38:08
Nick Matiash
It's like, okay. What do you even say? Well, honestly. So I think the first sentence says a lot in terms of misperception. So he's right. Like nobody needs an emotional man. They don't need a guy that's weeping and crying. And like, cancer is controlled by his emotions. Like I'm angry. So I'm going to yell. I'm sad, so I'm going to cry.

00:40:38:08 - 00:40:54:20
Nick Matiash
That's an emotional person. And there's nothing wrong with emotion as it is, but emotionally intelligent and emotionally disciplined or whatever you want to call it. Like that's that is different. And we need more of that. Emotionally intelligent is, you know, I'm feeling this thing. I'm aware of that. So I'm either going to take a five minute break and go process that.

00:40:54:20 - 00:41:09:01
Nick Matiash
So I don't projected onto my wife or I'm going to like remind myself, I got to come back to this and figure it out later tonight. So I don't, you know, say something I regret or I need to apologize because I came off a little hot there and that was my bed, not hers. Like, that's emotionally intelligent. Is that emotional?

00:41:09:01 - 00:41:30:14
Nick Matiash
Am I crying throughout my entire day? No. But that that subtle difference of, like, we don't need emotional men. Okay, I agree, we need emotionally intelligent men. We need guys that can hold space for their wives and and, yeah, go to therapy. And then I've said this in videos too, like, therapy is not about fixing you. It is not about making you, but like bridging the gap between your brokenness and you being whole.

00:41:30:14 - 00:41:41:06
Nick Matiash
It's like, here's some tools that will help you navigate life a little bit more purposefully. That's all it is. And if we can see it like. That, a good thing. Right? Why do we have to push back on that? That's weird. That's weird.

00:41:41:08 - 00:41:46:01
Lisa Sonni
Right? Be better. Why should I have to be better? I know it's it's wild because I'm.

00:41:46:01 - 00:41:47:11
Nick Matiash
I'm good enough. I'm fine.

00:41:47:16 - 00:42:01:18
Lisa Sonni
Right? I'm good enough as I am. Exactly. Next comment is fatherhood is not complicated. A man provides a woman raises the kids. That's how it's always worked. All this new crap about men needing to be nurturing is just feminist nonsense.

00:42:01:19 - 00:42:23:01
Nick Matiash
Oh, man, you're. Gonna love your. That's a fantastic. so there's, like, a similar element of what I see in comments sometimes where it's like, can't we just go back to the old days, like when, you know, married marriage lasted for 50 years and like this. But what was wrong with that? Like, and I've made videos in response to like the reason that that happened and marriages last as long as they were because women stayed for survival.

00:42:23:01 - 00:42:49:06
Nick Matiash
They weren't allowed to write, they weren't allowed to have a bank account. They weren't allowed to have their own home until literally like the 1970s, they couldn't get a mortgage without having a man next to them. And so, like that dynamic or that dream world and, I mean, I know you're in Canada, but I'm in America, so like, the whole Make America Great Again like it's all it is, is turning back time to a time where women didn't have these things that make them capable and not needing a man, but wanting one, which I think is a beautiful thing.

00:42:49:06 - 00:42:54:23
Nick Matiash
I'd much rather my wife wants me than nice and see me as a as a resource in her life.

00:42:55:05 - 00:42:55:21
Lisa Sonni
Yeah.

00:42:55:23 - 00:43:11:16
Nick Matiash
So yeah, I completely agree. But that yeah, the elements of like fatherhood is simple, like it is, but it does involve nurturing. Like, I, I don't want my kids to grow up and just see me as a paycheck or see me as the guy that holds the key to our house. Like I want them to see. Yeah, as as I see my dad,

00:43:11:16 - 00:43:25:18
Nick Matiash
as I spoke about early, like he was present and he took care of us. And to this day, I live an hour and a half away from my parents. The other day, my sump pump in my basement went out and he's like, I'll be there in like two hours. You don't have to do that. I'm 30. How long?

00:43:25:20 - 00:43:27:15
Lisa Sonni
He's still nurturing you. Right?

00:43:27:15 - 00:43:45:12
Nick Matiash
He's like, oh, you. Like that's. I'll come help you solve it. Like he that's who he is. And that's what fatherhood is. Does it look like nursery rhymes and and like singing Kumbaya? Like, that concept is so warped and weird. Like, that's not what nurturing has to be. Can it be that. Sure. But is that what it looks like? It's about time.

00:43:45:12 - 00:43:45:19
Nick Matiash
No.

00:43:45:22 - 00:44:04:09
Lisa Sonni
Maybe it's different for men. Like, I think my my partner who is not my kids biological father, but when they get sick, he's the one who goes and gives the medicine and like, cuddles them. And that's an amazing thing. I love that he's teaching them that, that men can be nurturing and men can be protective and men can be providers.

00:44:04:09 - 00:44:24:11
Lisa Sonni
Abby Eckel, another content creator, has often said that men treat themselves like the paycheck, right? Like I'm not doing the dishes, I make the money. I'm not raising the kids. I make the money. And then they get pissed off when men or when families rather treat them like they're nothing but money. It's like you made yourself nothing but money, and then you're mad that you're being treated like nothing but money.

00:44:24:13 - 00:44:46:00
Lisa Sonni
Men can and should be so much more than. And feminists. I'm a raging feminist. I get called a misandrist every day and I'm like, men are so valuable in society. Like I actually, I believe that. I believe that men can do better, should do better, so that we can all enjoy men, women, men, everybody, and have them safely participate in all of our lives. Yeah, but

00:44:46:00 - 00:44:47:11
Lisa Sonni
then there's men like this third comment.

00:44:47:16 - 00:44:49:11
Nick Matiash
Oh, which let's do it. Which is

00:44:49:15 - 00:45:03:15
Lisa Sonni
interesting, actually. I'm realizing that these two comments have a lot of similarities, but it was left by different people back in the day. The good old days, back in the day, women knew their role. Now all they want to do is complain that men don't do enough, but half of them can't cook anyway, and they want men to clean.

00:45:03:15 - 00:45:12:15
Lisa Sonni
Two men haven't changed. Women have. If women would actually support and respect their husbands instead of nagging all the time, marriages wouldn't fall apart. Got,

00:45:12:15 - 00:45:34:20
Nick Matiash
interesting, interesting take. I mean, I feel like most comment sections are just like the angry comments are just projection of their experience, right? Like it's that when he says they can't, they can't cook anyway. Like, okay, who burned a meal in your past that you're frustrated about? Like that? Is that really what we're here about, or is it is that every woman that you've ever met can't go like these, these weird or,

00:45:34:22 - 00:45:35:19
Lisa Sonni
Blanket statement,

00:45:35:19 - 00:45:46:03
Nick Matiash
the. Extreme language. Yeah. Like they or this generalization of sorts. It's very strange. But, yeah. What was it? Did he say. He said, men haven't changed. Women have. That.

00:45:46:03 - 00:45:46:11
Lisa Sonni
Right.

00:45:46:11 - 00:45:47:10
Nick Matiash
But the. Quote says.

00:45:47:16 - 00:45:50:21
Lisa Sonni
Yeah, men haven't changed. With that. I actually agree though. Yes.

00:45:51:03 - 00:45:55:23
Nick Matiash
Correct. That's kind of the that's kind of the problem, sir. Like the faceless statue is

00:45:56:00 - 00:45:56:16
Lisa Sonni
right there.

00:45:56:19 - 00:46:18:07
Nick Matiash
Right. It's right there. Like. And it doesn't I try to like draw this line often with, with men. It's like. Yes, we're talking about toxic masculinity. Let's remove that. But masculinity and I know I've talked about, Lion King already today, but I made a video recently like masculinity, like good masculinity is Mufasa. It is its strength and its power and its I'll take care of you.

00:46:18:07 - 00:46:35:11
Nick Matiash
But it's also like this loving presence, like he can be goofy with Simba and play and take care of the kid. Right? And then there's scar. Scar is toxic masculinity. He believes that he deserves things without working for them. He believes that he has a right to the throne. He is willing to literally burn it all to the ground to have what he wants, right

00:46:35:11 - 00:46:53:03
Nick Matiash
in to toxic masculinity. We want to get rid of that. But, like, nobody's coming for the Mufasa. Nobody wants to get rid of the strong, present, purposeful guy. And I just I can't believe that so many guys are willing to be like, no, I need to be the toxic guy. Let me be the toxic guy. Right? Like that's nobody.

00:46:53:03 - 00:46:55:04
Nick Matiash
You don't need to be. You can be better than that.

00:46:55:04 - 00:47:13:11
Lisa Sonni
And it's not working well for you. That's the part I don't get. Like you are alone and mad about it. Like you're saying this. Think about the incel, right? Like involuntarily meaning you don't want this, and yet you're just so convicted in it, and you're just. You demand that this be it, it's not working for you, bro. Do better change.

00:47:13:11 - 00:47:28:13
Nick Matiash
The thing is like that. I think that's the real crux of it, is when you are in these spaces where you're angry, you're lonely, you've been wronged. Maybe a woman did do you wrong. And I've I've had conversations with men who have been trolls in my comments and they've DM me and I've had these conversation like, okay, that sucks.

00:47:28:13 - 00:47:48:06
Nick Matiash
Like that genuinely does suck. And I feel for you. I'm not dismissing that pain, but I need you to understand that that is a it's not everything. Like that's not totality of existence. There are women out there that are beautiful, that are nurturing, that are fantastic women. And I promise you, it usually is a mirror to who you are showing up as like, if you're going to be this guy, that's I want it this way.

00:47:48:06 - 00:48:01:15
Nick Matiash
I'm a man. Give me these things. Like you're going to get a woman. That and to your point about what have you kind of said I've made videos of like if you argue for the conditions that you provide, that's how they will treat you. Like if if I am if you like, I took you on this vacation. I created this lifestyle.

00:48:01:17 - 00:48:30:17
Nick Matiash
Of course they're going to see you that way. Like if you present as a certain version of yourself, you're going to be met with someone that mirrors that. And so, you know, when these guys are lonely and frustrated. They have to find an enemy. And rather than making themselves that enemy and looking at like, the parts of themselves that need to change and evolve, no pun intended. They find somebody outside of them and, you know, they, they cling to rhetoric that that justifies and makes them feel good about that being the enemy.

00:48:30:17 - 00:48:47:16
Nick Matiash
So like, that's why, you know, the Andrew Tates of the world and all those other guys that are in the manosphere and doing the incel stuff, like they have an audience because there are guys that are in pain, that are lonely, that feel like they should have connection with other other people, slash women. And since they can't quite crack the code on that, they're pissed off about it.

00:48:47:16 - 00:48:58:06
Nick Matiash
I need to I need to be pissed off at somebody over there because I don't want to look at me. So I'm going to be pissed off at the woman that told me that I should change, because I'm not ready to do that yet. And so. Right. Just keep exacerbating the problem.

00:48:58:09 - 00:49:19:09
Lisa Sonni
Yeah, I feel so hopeless sometimes. But I view your business and I view what you do and what you speak on. And there are other men like you in the sense that are good men that speak about it online. It's so necessary. And, you know, we joked earlier before we hit record that I wish these ended up on the hands. Flip the man's reels.

00:49:19:13 - 00:49:44:18
Lisa Sonni
Not always women. I wish more men saw your content. But regardless, I think that it's amazing what you're doing and like thank you for your service. I think it's so necessary. And you know, the more the more men that speak out and speak about what you speak about, I think that it's going to do amazing things for relationships. Men really learning what it is to be a man has been a father, and how you can show up.

00:49:44:21 - 00:49:50:18
Lisa Sonni
Men are not a monolith and nor are women. So I just I appreciate everything you do. Thank you so much for being here.

00:49:50:20 - 00:49:52:20
Nick Matiash
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

00:49:53:01 - 00:49:56:11
Lisa Sonni
Let us know where to find you. What's your website and socials?

00:49:56:12 - 00:50:15:01
Nick Matiash
Oh man, all the socials are at Nick Matiash. My last name is goofy so I'm going to spell it for you. It's Nick, Matty I a sage TikTok Instagram, Facebook, all the places. And then you can usually find me other places by clicking things there. So I would start on social media and then branch out from there.

00:50:15:05 - 00:50:27:08
Lisa Sonni
Amazing. Perfect. Thank you so much, Nick. If this episode gave you clarity. Share it with someone who needs it. Thanks for being here and for being honest with yourself. And remember, you're stronger than before.

00:50:27:10 - 00:50:31:14
Music
Stronger than before.