Relationships Uncensored: Real Talk with Lisa Sonni
This is the podcast your abuser doesn’t want you to hear.
Hosted by relationship coach and abuse recovery educator Lisa Sonni, Relationships Uncensored pulls back the curtain on toxic and abusive dynamics, gender based violence, and romantic relationships, This is the raw truth no one else is saying out loud. No sugarcoating. No “just leave” advice.
Just real stories, real insight, and real talk - so you can finally feel seen, not silenced.
Relationships Uncensored: Real Talk with Lisa Sonni
You Don’t Need to Trust Men. You Need to Trust Yourself to Leave. | Sarah Robles | S4E14
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Send Lisa a question for her to reply in a future episode!
You Don’t Need to Trust Men. You Need to Trust Yourself to Leave. | Sarah Robles If you’ve ever felt terrified of dating again after abuse, this episode offers both validation and a clear path forward.
Lisa Sonni sits down with Sarah Robles to explore how survivors can rebuild self-trust, recognize red flags, and navigate the complex process of opening up to love after trauma. They discuss how abusers create false realities, the impact of hypervigilance and limerence, and why internal healing is essential before (and while) dating again.
Sarah shares practical strategies for vetting partners through pattern recognition, pacing, and discernment, while emphasizing the importance of challenging limiting beliefs and finding the “hope core” — the possibility of healthy love after trauma. This conversation reminds survivors that the goal isn’t to blindly trust others, but to trust themselves enough to leave when something isn’t safe.
Join Lisa Sonni & Dr. Peter Salerno in Boston, MA November 13-15, 2026 here: https://lisasonni.com/unbreakable-and-irreplaceable/
This is the podcast they don't want you listening to.
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00:00:00:13 - 00:00:08:18
Music
00:00:08:20 - 00:00:17:21
Lisa Sonni
This is Real Talk With Lisa Sonni: Relationships Uncensored, the podcast they don't want you listening to.
00:00:17:23 - 00:00:36:14
Sarah Robles (SJ)
People just love to ask women, how did you not see it? Right? As though abusive men introduce themselves and say hi, I'm going to be abusive. We never really know. And that really is a scary thing for so many women if you are considering dating. But I also want women listening to really consider when you dated this person.
00:00:36:15 - 00:00:58:13
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Look back at that. Because I think a lot of times they show up on the first date and they're really kind and sweet. They're not showing up as controlling and cruel or impossible to leave or manipulative. They just don't do that. they seem interested and attentive and all the nice things. Abusive men don't get into relationships by showing women the truth.
00:00:58:13 - 00:01:19:18
Sarah Robles (SJ)
They get in by showing women a false reality and a complete lie. So we want to talk about teaching women how to see through this and how to date without fear. We're not going to be a human lie detector. I wish that that was something we could really teach, but this is really about understanding why abuse is so difficult for women to see.
00:01:19:19 - 00:01:40:02
Sarah Robles (SJ)
So what did you miss? What can you look for in the future and everything in between? So my guest today is Sarah Robles, a coach, survivor and author of Finding Love After Abuse. It's a really hopeful and practical book about self-love and and survival and attachment wounds and all of these things. So I'm so glad to have you here.
00:01:40:02 - 00:02:06:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And I want to sort of put it over to you and have you maybe do a deeper introduction on on who you are and what got you here. yeah, my name is Sarah Robles. I go by SJ on social media, which is short for Sarah Jessica. And it's funny, I'm actually really surprised that I was even able to write this book where there was so many years that I did not think that I would ever date again. And I know I'm not the only one.
00:02:07:00 - 00:02:28:06
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Like, how many people have you talked to who are just like, I'm good. I'd rather just be by myself with my dogs or my cats or my kids, whatever. So this book that actually show you real quick, this book actually surprised me too, before I became an author. I started on social media, so I one day I remember being in my laundry room and I was just like, you know what?
00:02:28:06 - 00:02:53:01
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I'm going to start educating about what happened to me. And I started just reading every book that I could find about narcissistic abuse, about domestic violence, about coercive control. And I started making content on TikTok, and that's how I found you. Like I found a whole community within TikTok. So through that, I've been doing abuse education for six and a half years now,
00:02:53:01 - 00:03:15:06
Sarah Robles (SJ)
and I also am a coach. I'm a certified life and relationship coach, so I've really taken the pain of what I experienced and put it to purpose, because I think it impacted me so deeply that this is how I make sure that this wasn't done in vain, that someone didn't just abuse me just to do it, that I'm a very believer in finding your purpose.
00:03:15:06 - 00:03:39:09
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And I have found my purpose in educating to get the word out there that this is a thing, and also to help other survivors navigate the aftermath of abuse. you know, I got started in such a similar way. Won't tell the story now, but it's so interesting how it happens to you. You learn about it. You get your little in narcissistic views on YouTube, University or TikTok for some of us.
00:03:39:11 - 00:04:01:19
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And then it's like, this has to mean something. And honestly, there's so many women that are not interested in reliving this or talking about it or educating. They want to just learn it and move on and by all means. But some people educate as well, and I think it's amazing that it can come from a place of the lived experience that, frankly, a lot of clinicians don't have the lived experience.
00:04:01:19 - 00:04:21:18
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And then we can teach this. But you said something so interesting about, like, a lot of women are just never interested in dating again. I get it, because me too. And I felt like in so many ways, I felt like I was too young to say that I was 37 when everything blew up and 38 when I was kind of like, should I get my life back together?
00:04:21:18 - 00:04:39:05
Sarah Robles (SJ)
No, no, I don't think so. I think I hate men, I think I'm also scared of men. I think I want nothing to do with men. Yeah, my therapist told me to read a book called I Don't Want to Talk About It by Terence Real, who's a therapist, and he really is like an expert in male depression and relationships and whatnot.
00:04:39:06 - 00:05:03:22
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Amazing. She wanted it to create some empathy for why men are so awful. Not all men are right. And I've read the book and it's an amazing book, but it didn't make me want to be around men more, I have to admit. But yet I met someone I dated, I had awful dates. I had an awful experiences like post abusive relationship dating, which honestly makes you go, oh, so that's out here.
00:05:03:23 - 00:05:19:21
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Okay, never mind. And you go back into your whole you've probably had some similar experiences, but oh yeah, I wish that they were obvious, but I think you go on these dates early on and you're like, is he abusive? If he's nice, you're like, is he love bombing, you know? Did he say something? Is it off? Did he look at someone funny?
00:05:19:21 - 00:05:57:08
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Did he say the wrong thing. Like there's no self trust right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's exactly right. And when I've said things, when you said things when people are just like I'm just done with dating. And when you get yourself out of that toxic relationship, there is a sense of peace that you have found. When you have distance yourself enough, it doesn't mean that you're like fully away from them, because I know a lot of us have maybe have kids with these people, and we have to navigate court and all the post separation abuse, but you find enough peace to remember how peaceful peace feels once you feel that, at least for me, in
00:05:57:08 - 00:06:16:07
Sarah Robles (SJ)
my experience, I didn't want to let that go. And what I found I was doing. It wasn't so much that like I didn't like men. I'll agree with you on that. But I wasn't like, okay, every man out there is an abuser. I know, like if they're a good women out there, yeah, sure. There's good men out there sprinkled amongst them.
00:06:16:07 - 00:06:44:00
Sarah Robles (SJ)
But it was to the point where I realized I was actually caging myself in, and there was this epiphany that I had one day was like, I think that I'm saying this because I'm a I'm a badass woman, like, I don't need a man. And I felt empowered by it, almost. But the epiphany that I had one day was like, wait a minute, I shouldn't allow someone who broke my trust in other people be the end all be all.
00:06:44:00 - 00:07:13:22
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I should not allow them to have that amount of power, because if I do, I'm giving them power to tell me how I can relate or connect to other people. I'm basically handing love that I may or may not find a way to them. Like they're basically taking my opportunity to find happiness through a relationship. Now you can have happiness on your own, and I and I definitely did like I felt amazing on my own.
00:07:13:22 - 00:07:33:22
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I never felt lonely. That's just me, right? But one day I was I was kind of coming to the conclusion that I wanted to give. I have a little girl, my mom. I wanted to give her an example of a healthy relationship so that I could set her up for success in the future. When she tries to figure out what is it modeled like?
00:07:33:22 - 00:07:49:15
Sarah Robles (SJ)
What does it look like in my life? It was not model very well to me. It made a lot of sense of how I ended up in an abusive relationship, but I just one day, Lisa, I was just like sitting there. I was like, I'm not. I'm not giving my love away to this person that didn't know how to love me.
00:07:49:15 - 00:08:11:11
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Right. I'm going to try again. And it was the scariest decision I made. It took me, what, two years of horrible? I mean, we could probably go back and forth with like, all the horrible dating stories and messed up men that we have encountered. It was a lot of that. But then one day, you know, the conditions were right and I found a good one.
00:08:11:11 - 00:08:42:17
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And I'm like, pretty sure I found the man that one day I will call my husband. And I can't even believe that I'm saying that right now. I've known. You for years, so like I also can't, but amazing, incredible. You worded that so eloquently, that whole, you know, your little epiphany and all that. I remember a moment where I was like, I will not let this piece of shit make me so angry and so miserable that I'm going to deny a future awesome man the privilege of being with me.
00:08:42:17 - 00:09:05:07
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And you can say that sounds cocky, but like, I really had worked on my self-love and my confidence so much because he destroyed it that I was like, I'm really going to let some clown, some loser man from my past make me so destroyed that I'm not going to be happy. And to your point, model what a healthy relationship looks like for my kids and have them see what a healthy relationship looks like.
00:09:05:07 - 00:09:30:19
Sarah Robles (SJ)
But also, no offense to my kids, but like, what about me? I want that. And despite the feminism and the and the fact that so many people see feminism as like a man hating thing, people sort of like equate that. I don't hate men. I hate abusive men. I hate them to my core. But I love men. I love my son, I love my father, I love my brother, I love my brother in law, and I love my fiance.
00:09:30:20 - 00:09:49:16
Sarah Robles (SJ)
It's like it's there. Great men are everywhere. My friends have great husbands, so I know it's possible. And I know a lot of women are like where? Where both of you can stop talking. Where I think we both met them online. Just as an aside and online feels like to me, I felt like a raccoon sifting through trash.
00:09:49:18 - 00:10:09:19
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Oh my God, that is like that is. I haven't heard that exact analogy, but it is spot on when I tell you. Okay, so I had I had all these different rules for the swiping game because I met my boyfriend on hinge. Okay. But I went through all these different apps and I remember just kind of going through them and it was just like you said, like trash.
00:10:09:21 - 00:10:33:20
Sarah Robles (SJ)
No. Oh my God, what on earth? And like looking at it through the lens after abuse, it looks so different where I was able to vet very quickly, I would say 99% of the men that showed up, I would swipe left. I was just like, absolutely not, no way in hell. And it's something that you said. It's like it doesn't make you cocky to recognize your value.
00:10:33:20 - 00:10:55:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I think when we were with these narcissistic pos, they saw our value. They did. That's why they picked us. They saw that we had value and they wanted to diminish that value. Right? They wanted us to feel small. So for a long time you feel you feel diminished. You feel devalued. You feel small. When you get the hell away from them, you start to rebuild your confidence.
00:10:55:23 - 00:11:15:21
Sarah Robles (SJ)
You start to see like, whoa, wait a minute. I wasn't just like your average girlfriend. Like I was one hell of a girlfriend. I was one hell of a wife. Their devaluation of me is a them problem. It does not mean that I'm any less valuable. So when you come back to that space right in the healing process, you're just like, wait, I'm actually a fucking catch, okay?
00:11:15:21 - 00:11:42:22
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And it is a privilege to be with me. And there is a man out there who is smart enough to recognize your value and treat you accordingly. But there's also a lot of men who want to diminish you. And so, you know, through this vetting process, I would say through all the TikToks and all the education, all the reading, it definitely helped me have my discernment much better than before I went through the abusive relationship.
00:11:42:22 - 00:12:10:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I could vet easily, but that's not where it stops, and I think that's where people need to remember. When you're dating your data collecting, and you're not just collecting data about another person, you are collecting data about yourself. I started to realize there were areas in my life and things within me that I had not addressed yet. Healing is an individual thing, but the next step, if that's something that you want, right?
00:12:10:23 - 00:12:38:16
Sarah Robles (SJ)
If you want to be single for the rest of your life, by all means do it. It's a free world if that's where you cool, whatever makes you happy. But healing has to happen relationally. You need to heal in the relationship to really figure out how you connect with people. Because these toxic abusers, no matter if it showed up in your childhood or romantically, they have broken your trust and your ability to have like a healthy, normal relationship with another person, right?
00:12:38:19 - 00:13:07:07
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Like you become like very hypervigilant, paranoid, even of people, very mistrusting. You have to when you're now dating and in a relationship, learn how to trust not only another person, but how to trust yourself again. And it is easier said than done. I don't know about you, but like even still like, things are going so great, but there's that little like that trauma voice that comes in that's like, this is too good to be true.
00:13:07:08 - 00:13:34:17
Sarah Robles (SJ)
What if, like, what if the red flag is just lurking, really hidden in one day the shoe drops and it was all a lie, right? We've heard all the stories. So it's like, how do you now navigate this relationship with all these other little trauma responses that rear their ugly head all the time? And honestly, like, I don't know if there's an easy answer for that, but you're saying something so important because I think that we avoid we don't trust people anymore.
00:13:34:17 - 00:13:51:04
Sarah Robles (SJ)
So we avoid dating because you don't trust men. Make sense. Except in order to ever learn how to trust men, you have to start to trust men. What a catch 22. But it's kind of like, how do you break a trauma bond, right? You have to go. No contact. Well, how do you go? No contact if you're still in love with.
00:13:51:06 - 00:14:14:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
So yeah. This part of, you know, dating or, or experiencing things with safe men could be somebody else's husband. I mean, safe things, to be clear. But having experiences where you learn men can be safe because if you've only ever experienced them as harmful or you've experienced 1 or 2 that are extremely harmful, you're going to be gun shy.
00:14:15:00 - 00:14:30:15
Sarah Robles (SJ)
That makes complete sense. But you have to do it. And I'm always reminded of this, this circumstance. And it was someone that I'm dating, not someone that I was with now. But he offered me a Diet Coke from my own fridge, I might add, but it's not even the point. He was like, I'm getting a drink.
00:14:30:15 - 00:14:46:19
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Do you want a drink? Do you want me to grab you a Diet Coke? And I was like, no, I'm good, I was thirsty, okay? Was want to point that out? In that moment, my brain went, yes. And my mouth went, no, I'm good. And then he sat down with his drink and drank. And we were eating chips or something.
00:14:46:19 - 00:15:03:00
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Whatever. And I'm sitting there thinking, you idiot, to me, to myself. What? Like now? What? You just sit, you're thirsty because you can't get up and get a drink three seconds after. So I was like, wow, it's the appropriate amount of time to wait. And I decided it was five minutes. So I literally watched the clock for five minutes.
00:15:03:00 - 00:15:14:19
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I got up, got a Diet Coke, sat down, and he looked right at me and went, what the heck? And I was like, oh, I didn't know I was thirsty. And then I realized I am. So I just got up and got it myself. And he was like, you could have just asked me. I would have gotten back up.
00:15:14:19 - 00:15:33:05
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And my first thought was, are you kidding me? I would never ask you. You'd be sitting down, ask you to get up. And then I thought, where's that coming from? My therapist helped me unpack. My ex would have if he was at the fridge getting water. And I said, can you grab me? One, two. But what? Your legs broken, you lazy.
00:15:33:05 - 00:15:56:13
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I was seven months pregnant. He didn't even care. Like there was no. It was always name calling and mocking. And so we know where the trauma comes from. Oh yeah. Had I not had that experience with him, what I'm realizing is that I wouldn't have recognized that I have a problem asking for help, because if I ask for help, it means I'm lazy, bad, stupid, selfish, incapable, whatever.
00:15:56:13 - 00:16:22:17
Sarah Robles (SJ)
But that's the story that I learned in the abusive relationship. So to unlearn it, I need to ask for help specifically from men. And that's hard because it almost gives them a little bit of power. Like you're in a position to help me. I don't like it. Yeah, So the interesting thing about that is when men are not doing what they're supposed to be doing, which is looking out for you, protecting, providing we as women, we kind of like we start to and you'll hear this.
00:16:22:18 - 00:16:41:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
You've probably heard this before. We start to ask, we act more masculine, right? Yeah. And so of course you're going act more masculine when suddenly maybe you're a single mom and you're doing all of the burden of the household, all of the burden of the work, the taking care of the kids, like you were literally holding the world on your back.
00:16:42:02 - 00:17:00:11
Sarah Robles (SJ)
When you meet a healthy man, tell me if you feel this way. Life feels easier. Like, I actually feel like in a healthy relationship, everything is easy. And I'll give an example I wanted to get a bigger bed, okay, I wanted to get a king size bed. I finally did it. I get the boxes delivered to the house.
00:17:00:11 - 00:17:21:22
Sarah Robles (SJ)
They are so heavy. Okay, now I just so happened to be dating a bodybuilder. This dude is jacked. Okay, I don't know if you saw pictures of him, but he's jacked, so he. I'm just like, oh man, these boxes are so heavy. I don't even ask him, Lisa. He just goes into the garage, takes his muscles, puts this thing over his shoulder, walks up the bed frame and the mattress upstairs.
00:17:22:00 - 00:17:46:04
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Then he proceeds to unpack everything and put it together. And I just kind of Saturday there, and I was like, I feel so soft. I feel like I am finally in my soft, feminine energy that I forgot it. What it felt like to feel, you know, that songs like man, I feel Like a woman, I feel like a woman again.
00:17:46:05 - 00:18:06:03
Sarah Robles (SJ)
He makes me feel. And it's not like it's just like gender roles. Like he literally just softens me and makes me melt into a pile of goo because a I didn't have to ask him for help when you were talking about, I have trouble asking for help, so do I. And if I could bet money, I'm sure a lot of us survivors do because we didn't get help.
00:18:06:03 - 00:18:30:09
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Because giving help to someone requires empathy. Like, you have to see that there is a need that you would have to help them with these narcissistic people, these toxic people. You're supposed to you work for them. You're supposed to do everything for them. You're their personal assistant. So when you finally have help again, like someone's offering you a Diet Coke, you know, someone's making you a bed frame, it feels uncomfortable.
00:18:30:09 - 00:18:50:07
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And when you were describing, like you're having this whole little dialog in your head of like, oh my God, do I ask for the Diet Coke? It's been five minutes. Is that appropriate? That's a trauma response. when my boyfriend was making the bed frame. I was sitting there just kind of watching him, and I wasn't doing anything. I was just sitting there watching. And I felt really uneasy.
00:18:50:07 - 00:19:04:05
Sarah Robles (SJ)
This was actually this weekend. I felt really uneasy, and I was just like, what the what is happening to me right now? And I just blurted out to him, I was like, I feel like I'm going to get yelled at. And he looked at me like, why do you feel like you're going to get yelled at? I was like, I don't know.
00:19:04:05 - 00:19:18:22
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I just feel like I'm going to get yelled at. I'm not doing anything. I'm not helping. I'm not. I'm not directing you on how to build this bed frame. And he looked at me. He was like, sweetie, I'm not going to yell at you. And I was like, I think I'm having a trauma response right now. And I sat through that and I.
00:19:18:22 - 00:19:40:09
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And I realized, yeah, like, I would have been yelled at if I didn't help or if I didn't do the thing. And it's amazing to me, like, there's this little there's a couple voices. I don't know if it's like the voices in my head. It sounds so crazy, but like, there's like the voice of that abuser is still in your head, like, even when you physically get away.
00:19:40:10 - 00:20:02:02
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I don't know about you, but like you were saying, like, if I asked for the Diet Coke, he would say I'm stupid and lazy. That's them. They're still wired into your nervous system, into your thought process, and even still, it's been like seven years since this toxic relationship ended. I'm still hearing those, like, nagging criticisms in my head.
00:20:02:02 - 00:20:25:04
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And it's interesting you're in a relationship with someone new, someone healthy, but that voice is still in your head, so it's like you're almost still dealing with the aftermath of what psychological and emotional abuse really does. And it doesn't just go away. It's not a matter of just getting over it. It's like, how do you evict that critical voice right out of your head?
00:20:25:04 - 00:20:45:07
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And I don't know the answer for that either, because it's still there. I don't know if you still experience that to this day. So much less, so much less. And actually the answer really is experience. It's it's so you so you, you sat there and you watched him and you didn't help. And he said, it's okay, sweetie. It's okay.
00:20:45:13 - 00:21:10:22
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And you experienced that safety. And now you know that next time he's doing something for you that he takes probably pleasure in helping you in, in giving you this service, so to speak. And he's not expecting anything back so that it's it's repetition. And I've been with my partner for four years. And I would say it was like around the beginning of the third year mark, that I started to like, relax.
00:21:11:02 - 00:21:32:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I will admit that every so often he has to take me by the shoulders and have me sit, because if he's doing something which he's always moving around the house, he's constantly like cleaning something, doing something, whatever. He does all the outside stuff, you know, what is what men say that men do all the outdoor stuff. He does do all of that, but he also does dishes and laundry and just vacuums and does things.
00:21:33:00 - 00:21:50:08
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Someone's going to ask, what do I do? Shut up. But anyways, I do lots. But there's lots about so many things to do. But it's okay if I'm sitting down like he can be doing the dishes and I can be sitting on the couch watching a show and he's not wondering, like, how come I'm doing the dishes if you. He literally wants me to sit down.
00:21:50:08 - 00:22:10:16
Sarah Robles (SJ)
That's weird, because at first I was like, what's he going to expect as a result of this? What's the payment? What's the cost? Because I was used to there being a cost. But all of this, yes, it's a trauma response. But finding your way into safety has to come from a little bit of risk. And that's the piece right there of women are like, yeah, no, I'm not doing that.
00:22:10:17 - 00:22:30:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
No risk. I'm not doing that at all. They don't want to take the risk again, which I don't blame them. Honestly. I mean, because, you know, these toxic people, these abusers, they they're really good at creating harm. They create a lot of harm. And it makes like the my eyes and my worldview forever changed after this abusive relationship.
00:22:31:00 - 00:22:53:06
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Like I and, you know, in a way, it's weird. In a way I'm grateful for it. Like, I'm not saying I give any credit to the abuser whatsoever, but I'm grateful now that I can see the world for what it is. There are people out there that are like the monsters that we say live under our bed. No, they're actually just walking amongst the street looking like your neighbor, looking like a regular old person, and they create a lot of harm.
00:22:53:06 - 00:23:14:20
Sarah Robles (SJ)
So I, I'm grateful in the sense that I'm not living in a world where I think I had a lot of I was a little bit naive. I didn't really understand just how harmful people could be. Like, I kind of knew, but not you don't really know until you experience it firsthand. But it's just they create so much harm that it makes it really difficult to want to take that risk again.
00:23:14:20 - 00:23:33:13
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And you're right. Like, that's kind of that's kind of the thing about love in general. There's going to you're risking like someone's going to hurt you. You're risking your heart might be broken. You know, maybe someone threatened your life. There's a lot of risk that comes with being vulnerable with other people. But that's kind of the thing, right?
00:23:33:13 - 00:23:53:14
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Where there's risk, there's also the potential for great reward. So it's like you don't want to just throw caution to the wind. In my book, I talk a lot about like how to date with the discernment, like you've how many TikToks you need to watch on red flags until you test it out, right? What are you learning this information for?
00:23:53:16 - 00:24:17:08
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Like, obviously you want this information to put it to practice to see if you can discern and find healthy friends, healthy partners, there's going to be a little bit of risk. And that's that's really what I'm trying to empower survivors to do. Where like I get that it's scary, but that you can try again and you might find the love of your life. I'm like,
00:24:17:08 - 00:24:35:03
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I know you have known so many survivors over the years that we have met, like over these last 6 or 7 years that are engaged, ready to be married. They're taking risk. Does it mean it's not scary? No. There's there's always being in love is a very vulnerable thing. I think about it all the time.
00:24:35:03 - 00:25:05:17
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I'm just like, is a shoe going to drop today? But again, it's like it's that repetition. It's that consistency and it's consistent, healthy behavior. And when I tell you, like you said, there was you said something about there being a cost. Like this person is being loving towards you and there's a a cost, right. That is spot on. And I think that's why it's hard to trust people when someone's doing something loving, when they're doing something nice, they're getting you a Coke, they're making your bed.
00:25:05:19 - 00:25:21:13
Sarah Robles (SJ)
You're thinking to yourself the whole time, what is this going to cost me? Is this like, is this just a carrot that's being dangled? This is too good to be true. But the thing is, when someone really loves you. It doesn't cost anything at all. And it's so funny that you said that. Because I actually said that to my boyfriend.
00:25:21:13 - 00:25:41:06
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I said, I owe you one. And he looked at me and he was like, you don't owe me anything. I don't, that's weird. Yeah, that's what you mean. And then it's like, you don't even trust that. I think one of the biggest issues that I see in in post abuse dating is people say you have to heal before you date, be healed, go to therapy.
00:25:41:08 - 00:26:00:05
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Yeah. Go to therapy. Heal. Sure. But remember that he'll is not to become healed, as in there's a there's a you do the thing and then you are healed. And now you go out into the world and you date. Dating can be healing. Dating can be friggin traumatizing. Okay. We're not going to pretend that's not true. But dating can be healing.
00:26:00:05 - 00:26:21:21
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And I think even when two parts. Okay, so I remember this person that I dated, the Diet Coke guy, let's say when that relationship ended, I remember feeling sad, but okay, which made me feel like, okay, like I'm not going to die. This isn't I wasn't, like, deeply, madly in love. Maybe. Probably shouldn't have been dating that person to begin with.
00:26:21:22 - 00:26:41:19
Sarah Robles (SJ)
He's not abusive, but toxic for sure, but not not for me. And it it ended. And a couple of months later I was in therapy and I was talking to my therapist about the idea of dating again and being like, I don't know, man. Like, I don't know if I trust myself because how do I know that if I met someone bad that I would do the right thing?
00:26:41:19 - 00:26:59:14
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And she was like, what are you talking about? You just did the right thing. And I was like, no, but he wasn't abusive. And she was like, so what? That's even harder. Like leaving someone who's just not for you. You didn't leave him because he screamed at you or hit you or didn't get you Diet Cokes. Like, look, he's a nice guy.
00:26:59:14 - 00:27:16:16
Sarah Robles (SJ)
He shoveled my driveway, he did the dishes. He did all kinds of things. But, like, we weren't the right fit. But I proved to myself, but she needed to tell me that I needed to have it, like slapped in my own face of you have proven to yourself that you are willing to end something that isn't right for you, that matters.
00:27:16:16 - 00:27:30:07
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And then I was on a date with someone who was acting like a complete crazy person on the date. Like I could tell I won't. Don't tell the whole story because it's long, but like, it was just weird. The entire date was weird. And at one point he was talking about being my kid’s stepdad on the first date.
00:27:30:08 - 00:27:48:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
It was crazy. Oh my God. I, I didn't continue, I didn't give him a second chance. I didn't give him the benefit of the doubt. I was like, that's weird. Now, everyone might think that's obviously so profoundly weird. Yeah, it seems obvious, but in context, I could see how someone wouldn't think. It's not like he said, we're getting married tomorrow.
00:27:48:23 - 00:28:07:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
He was just talking about if in the future. Yeah. But that's weird. So I tracked it and I actioned it. Yes. So I'm like, oh, okay, I'm proving this to myself. Then I started dating the person I'm with now, and he was normal. And I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. And then I thought, okay, wait, wait wait wait.
00:28:08:00 - 00:28:27:18
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Lisa, chill. Deep breath. He seems great. That means he's a narcissist, okay? He's definitely a narcissist. And I would say to him, like, are you real? Every time he would do something nice or say something, I'm pretty sure to the degree that he was annoyed by how often I asked him, but he was just consistent and then safety built.
00:28:27:18 - 00:28:50:03
Sarah Robles (SJ)
But I had to take the risk of dating people. But it's like I used to, okay, this is just my thing. But I used to say, okay, old Lisa would have said, that's not that weird that he said the stepdad thing, but it is weird. So I had to. Okay, well, what did I feel? I felt it was weird and I told myself it wasn't that weird, but I'm going to trust the feeling.
00:28:50:07 - 00:29:05:05
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Yes. Okay. I had to slow it down like a dummy, you know? Like I had to really be like, what? Did I feel discomfort? Where did I feel it? It was in the pit of my stomach. Well, that's not a good feeling. Maybe you shouldn't date somebody who talks like that. There were other things, too. I have to be fair, that wasn't the weirdest thing.
00:29:05:08 - 00:29:22:05
Sarah Robles (SJ)
But there were so many reasons. And then I just decided I'm going to be a grown up, and I'm going to explain to him. I'm going to tell him I found that he made me uncomfortable on the date, and I don't want to continue. But please, you know, best of luck and let's part ways. And he was like, but you didn't give me a chance to really show you.
00:29:22:05 - 00:29:46:00
Sarah Robles (SJ)
That's not fair. You know, we should go out on a second date so I can really block. Yeah. Interact. The three dots block. Absolutely not. Right. You were literally hearing me say no, and you were pressuring me to go on a second date. I was right, but again, I use the information you're being given. You said something earlier about vetting, and we always look at dating as like interviewing and getting to know someone.
00:29:46:00 - 00:30:08:02
Sarah Robles (SJ)
How is vetting different than getting to know someone. Yeah. So actually stems off from from what you're saying. It's it's remember like there's an emotional aspect of this, right? When you are vulnerable you start to open up the emotion. So it's not just vetting on an interview. Like if you're going to a job interview, you're just kind of like saying, this is who I am and what I have to offer the company or whatever.
00:30:08:02 - 00:30:24:15
Sarah Robles (SJ)
It's like, yeah, this is what we're looking for. This is what we also have to offer. It's very transactional. When you're in a relationship, you're like you said, it's not just about if somebody gets you a Diet Coke. There's different things that need to happen when you're vetting. And it could be as simple as like location, right?
00:30:24:15 - 00:30:41:04
Sarah Robles (SJ)
You're not going to date someone that's like on the other side of the world. It's just not. Or maybe you will I don't know, it's not practical though, right? There's like there's things that you're vetting, like locational convenience that you can actually see someone spend time with them in real life and gauge how it feels to be with that person.
00:30:41:06 - 00:31:03:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
You're looking for chemistry, right? Like with that guy you were talking about, the something in your body was just like, red alert. And let me tell you right now, one thing that I learned through this whole dating experience is your body knows way before your brain does; your gut and your nervous system picks up on it first. And if something feels weird, it's not always
00:31:04:03 - 00:31:26:00
Sarah Robles (SJ)
the mistake that I made is that I would attribute it to trauma. I'd be like, oh, that's just my trauma speaking. No, it was still it was detecting real live information. That was a red flag. Like, listen, when we say listen to your gut, like, listen to that feeling in your in your belly. If you feel uneasy, if you feel weird, that's like the best information you're going to have.
00:31:26:00 - 00:31:46:05
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Something about this doesn't feel right. Okay, maybe you don't have chemistry. It's also like the core values. Does this person align with things that you care about as well? Right. If and like you need to have that alignment. And I think where it becomes difficult in the vetting, it's the it's the mistrust. It's the mistrust of self.
00:31:46:05 - 00:32:07:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
It's the okay, things are going really well. When you said like is he real? I said the same thing. I was like, are you for real right now? Like, this is like I thought to myself. I was like, he's one of those narcissists. That's like the ultra. The ultra covert. Yeah. And they have the long game that, like, this is literally like, sometimes I still have these thoughts
00:32:07:23 - 00:32:29:09
Sarah Robles (SJ)
on like, oh, this is the long game one. But it's like there's I'm still taking a risk of like, what information disproves this narrative that I'm telling myself because I have a hard time trusting myself. Right. The vetting process is a lot of different things. It's not just the basic information of what they tell you, what they show you, what they do.
00:32:29:09 - 00:32:47:09
Sarah Robles (SJ)
It's also like, how do you feel in the presence? And I remember coming back from dates of like, oh, like I do not. I feel like I left a date feeling angry one time, like I felt legit angry. I was like, I don't want to be with someone, that I just leave feeling frustrated and angry because they asked me what my body count was.
00:32:47:09 - 00:33:07:04
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And I thought that that was a really disgusting question and I walked. I know, right? I walked away like, who asked that? What are they doing with this information? So like the vetting is I think, one of the most challenging parts of it because there's so many different people you're trying to figure out, are they just nicer or they love bombing?
00:33:07:04 - 00:33:23:12
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And I have I don't know if you get comments like that, like, how do I know if it's love bombing or not? And I'm like, you have to think about again, it's the patterns. You have to look at the patterns. What are they saying? When are they saying it? How are they saying it? It's it's not an easy thing to say.
00:33:23:13 - 00:33:41:05
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Like, is this love bombing or not? Sometimes people are genuinely just very like loving and they buy you flowers. It's not about the flowers, it's about the intent behind it. Why are they doing it? Is it a shut up gift? Did they just say something mean to you? And then all of a sudden, they're getting you a gift now, like, what is a sequence of events?
00:33:41:08 - 00:34:03:12
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Does it stop abruptly one day? Once you guys, like, get in a committed relationship? It's the patterns. You know, they say like, people are their patterns. That's true. It's you have to look at the patterns. And honestly, Lisa, you should be looking at the patterns forever. Like, it's not like once you're in a relationship, you just okay, blinders on.
00:34:03:13 - 00:34:20:18
Sarah Robles (SJ)
You're always looking, you're always observing to see how people are treating you. Because if it's ten years down the road and we've seen people in marriages like 20 years, and then they get divorced because they're like, this person started cheating on me, or they all of a sudden they they saw the true nature of what they were capable of.
00:34:20:19 - 00:34:39:20
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Right? It's so hard. You know, we talk about dating and women are always afraid of dating a narcissist. Okay. So they're afraid and they're, like, hypervigilant. And that's horrible and totally a trauma response. Is he this. And he said that and the stepdad comment or body count questions or what do you bring to the table. All those some things are obvious.
00:34:40:00 - 00:34:57:10
Sarah Robles (SJ)
There's this flip side of dating. And I see this a lot. And I actually I'm thinking of a very specific client, in fact. But when you date and this happens to women you're dating and it feels great and there are no red flags, but you've been through it and you're hypervigilantly looking for red flags, but there's nothing. You feel great
00:34:57:10 - 00:35:17:12
Sarah Robles (SJ)
every time you see him. You feel happy. You feel safe. You feel great. You are feeling things for the person. You're not feeling like you're going to fast. Everything's ticking the boxes and you're paralyzed with fear because you use that as evidence that you see you're not seeing anything and you're not seeing anything because you're stupid and you're going to miss it.
00:35:17:12 - 00:35:39:05
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And he's going to spring out of the shadows in six months and be a narcissist. So you get nervous that there are no red flags. So asking, what are the red flags again? You brought up this point of like it is how you feel. So if you feel safe and you feel good but your brain is telling you you're missing something, you need to be able to kind of, maybe I am and maybe I'm not.
00:35:39:05 - 00:35:59:21
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I can't know this right now. You're going to get comfortable in the ambiguity of not knowing, but I would suggest my advice is to slow down. yes. And to stem off that, like when I I'm such a nerd. When I started dating, I would, I would take notes. I literally would create. Do not judge me for what I'm gonna tell you everybody.
00:35:59:23 - 00:36:17:22
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I would create a project file. Okay. This is hypervigilance. I would create a project file with the person's name and I would take notes. Okay. And these were notes for myself. Just so I could, like raw, write what I was feeling. And then I would come back to it later and be like, okay, what does this all mean?
00:36:17:22 - 00:36:35:00
Sarah Robles (SJ)
So I would what I call it is pinning information. Okay. So if somebody said, like, for example, the guy that asks about the body count, that I would pin that question as a piece of information, I'd be like today. So and so ask me about my body count and I don't know how I feel about it. I feel angry right?
00:36:35:02 - 00:36:54:10
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Then I started going down this like rabbit hole of like, why did that make me feel angry? And then I would finally come to the conclusion I was like, oh, because he's a dog, and he devalues women based on some arbitrary number for things that she did consensually with people as an adult, he doesn't value me as an equal, and I remember ending it after that.
00:36:54:10 - 00:37:12:00
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I was just like, hey, I don't think there's going to be another date. We're done. Okay, that's the way that I did it. I would take information. But the thing is, I think one of the challenging things is like, okay, we know all these red flags. We like if someone says, oh, all my ex's are crazy. Okay, I put that in the red flag category, right?
00:37:12:00 - 00:37:28:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
But at what point do you action the red flag right. Is the red flag red enough for you to not want to get to know that person? Again? I think there's different categories of like like you said, the obvious red flag with that dude you were on a date with of like it was just something about it just gave you the ick,
00:37:29:02 - 00:37:51:11
Sarah Robles (SJ)
you walked away from it. It's a couple things figuring out what your like, what your deal breaker really is. And the second piece that I think people are challenged with is can I trust myself to walk away? If the red flag is red enough that I cannot stay here anymore? And I think what happens is, and this is I had one situation, actually, I think it was this.
00:37:51:12 - 00:38:13:00
Sarah Robles (SJ)
It was it was last year where I had met a gentleman. He was really attractive. I felt really attracted to him. And we were getting along. And then he abruptly was just like, this isn't going anywhere. I sobbed as if I had been in a relationship with him for three years. Okay. And then I found myself crying, really upset, and I was like, what the hell is this response?
00:38:13:00 - 00:38:35:00
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Because I could logically look at it like, okay, I pinned all these things. How did I miss it? Right? How did I miss this? Why am I so upset? And then I realized that beyond just the vetting of these red flags and pinning this information, there's stuff within me that's also going on with how I interpret relationships. Have you ever like the term limerence...
00:38:35:00 - 00:38:59:00
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Have you ever done any deep dive on limerence at all. Deep dives? But I know what it means and I've heard of it. But explain it because I don't think most people do. So for me, I learned that I struggle with something called limerence.. Okay, limerence, a lot of the times is is like a phenomenon for, you know, if child is going and I'm not a psychologist or anything, but like a child is in you know, they have their, their parents and maybe one of their parents is emotionally unavailable.
00:38:59:05 - 00:39:22:00
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Well, it hurts their feelings that their parent is emotionally unavailable. So what they do is they end up creating these stories, almost like this fantasy of what they wished their relationship was like. And so when you meet someone that you're drawn to, you start to create these stories that are not even happening in real life. And I found myself doing that with this particular guy where I was.
00:39:22:00 - 00:39:45:02
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I was already in visioning us, getting together, envisioning our future. We weren't having any of these conversations. I was in this fantasy land because he had emotional unavailability. was just like, maybe he's not a good texter, right? I was kind of like chalking it up to like, maybe he's not a good texter and he's just a little bit older and and I'm a millennial and we're just not jiving.
00:39:45:02 - 00:40:10:16
Sarah Robles (SJ)
No, he was emotionally unavailable, and I found myself creating these stories to fill in where I longed for the emotion to be. I liked him, but he didn't like me in the same way. Right. So I found through this limerence, I was hoping that he would choose me, and I think a lot of us get into relationships with the wrong people because we are just so desperately craving to be chosen.
00:40:10:17 - 00:40:27:10
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Like, it's just you want to be chosen. You want someone to be like, oh my God, I see your value. You're amazing. This is it. We're going to get married. It's going to be love, love, love, love, love. And so I was filling in those gaps because it wasn't there. Now obviously when that one didn't work out, I was about to throw in the towel.
00:40:27:10 - 00:40:43:07
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I was like, it's been two years, I can't find a good one. I found some okay men, but again, the chemistry was lacking. But I was just like, I don't want to do this anymore. And then one day I have this, like little feeling in my gut like, don't, don't give up. Just take a pause. Don't give up.
00:40:43:07 - 00:41:03:06
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Let's see who's in your queue. And I went into my hinge cue and there he was. You know, my boyfriend. His name's Virgil, my boyfriend Virgil. He was there and he was really fine. Like, he was so good looking. I was just like, whoa! But beyond him being physically good looking, he was just like, we just. We just mesh.
00:41:03:07 - 00:41:26:06
Sarah Robles (SJ)
We just get along. We're very similar in a sense. Like we have similar point of view. But I'm glad that as I'm pinning all these pieces of information, the one thing that I am so proud of myself is that I was able to walk away. That is the key. I was able to walk away from all the losers or the people that weren't right, the right fit in order to get to the right one.
00:41:26:06 - 00:41:43:20
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And I think what happens is we get so fixated on finding him, finding the love of your life that you want to push the circle into the square, just like, let's just get this done already. I just want to be in love already. That's not how it works. It sometimes takes time. Sometimes the conditions have to be right.
00:41:43:21 - 00:42:12:03
Sarah Robles (SJ)
You know, if you want to believe in fate, sometimes the stars and moon have to align for you to meet that person. It's not like when you want it to. So I think one advice I give to people dating after abuse. Be patient with yourself for not just with all the trauma responses you're going to feel. Be patient with the interesting people that you'll meet, but just be patient with the timing of things like there is a timing element and if the time isn't right, it's not right.
00:42:12:03 - 00:42:30:01
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And I don't know about you, but that phrase of like when you know, you know it's real, I really feel that there is a truth in that. There's something that's like, when you truly know that this is your person, there's something that just it just feels right. I can't explain it. I don't know if you felt that way in your situation.
00:42:30:01 - 00:42:34:18
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I did, and I think that I also felt that way about my abuser.
00:42:34:18 - 00:42:35:21
Lisa Sonni
I knew
00:42:35:21 - 00:42:54:16
Sarah Robles (SJ)
and I was wrong. This is true. This is true. It actually, I have to admit, yes, I felt it with the person I'm with, but it mirrors the feeling I had then. And so my brain was like, well, what? So you're stupid and they're both narcissists. And again, yeah, not one. But like the amount of times I was like, do you see how he's in?
00:42:54:20 - 00:43:12:19
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I was like pushing myself. But I think that comes to you have a story in your mind and then you start seeking evidence. Confirmation bias, right. Puts you in that direction. We're terrified. And I've heard people say this, Sandra L Brown once said it. In fact, you and I were hosting a webinar where she said in that interview of like, trust your gut.
00:43:12:19 - 00:43:33:02
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And I remember the psychologist on that same webinar was like, how like, you just say, trust your gut. Like, what is that? What is that? Yeah, I agree. What the hell does that mean? You have to separate your intuition from fear and it can feel like the same thing, especially when you mix in hypervigilance and trauma responses. And this is true.
00:43:33:03 - 00:44:02:10
Sarah Robles (SJ)
This is true. So it's like it's. And this is where the trouble is it's like it it feels the same. So like when you know you know. But that can't be the only deciding factor right. Like if your gut is telling me you're like, yes. But I think that's what narcissists are good at. They're good at getting you to override your gut or to make you feel like, like basically you believe the illusion that they create and they, their salespeople, like, they are so good at sales of a false person, and you believe they are who they say they are when they're not.
00:44:02:10 - 00:44:21:00
Sarah Robles (SJ)
So I think you know this in this particular situation, when I say I know it wasn't on the first date, I knew something was different. Like I knew something was different. I was like, oh, okay. And I found that, like, I wasn't pinning all these red flags the way it was. I was like, okay, there's there's literally nothing like there's nothing to pin.
00:44:21:00 - 00:44:41:17
Sarah Robles (SJ)
There's no red flag, which can also be unsettling to your point. But when I knew it is when I saw him being the same version of himself consistently, consistently. Like he always like he'll say what he's going to do. He does what he said he do. If he says, I'll be there at six, guess what? He's there at six.
00:44:41:18 - 00:44:58:12
Sarah Robles (SJ)
If he says, I'm here to meet your family, he doesn't discard me on the day, the important day to meet my family. He comes and he proves with evidence that he is who he says he is. So it's like it's the feeling in the gut of like, I feel, I know, but to your point, and I think that's a good point.
00:44:58:15 - 00:45:19:16
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Narcissists are good at making you feel that way. They make you feel like you're your soulmate, but they don't say their actions and the things that they say don't align like they. Yeah, there's inconsistency and discrepancy in that. So I think maybe you have to do this in tandem. Right. Just slow down. You don't have to decide tomorrow that like you're going to get married and have kids.
00:45:19:16 - 00:45:40:01
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Like you don't have to decide that. Like. Yeah. Steady as she goes. Like the time to like, really get to know who this person is. Plan out fun dates. Do they plan fun dates? Is it mutual? Are you guys putting mutual effort? Is it all you like? Pay attention to all the things. Does it feel easier? Do. Can you?
00:45:40:02 - 00:45:56:03
Sarah Robles (SJ)
When you said like, I sat down and I could relax. Not with a narcissist, though. You could never do that. Never ever. Oh my God. Jump up and starting. Fake swiping the counter when the counter. Clean like I'm doing something right. When I said, yeah, I feel like I'm going to get yelled at because you have to constantly do something.
00:45:56:03 - 00:46:22:12
Sarah Robles (SJ)
So it's not like there's this quick fix formula of like, you know, ten steps to how to find love after abuse. It's not a thing. It is a it's a process. And taking it slow, listening to your body, what your body signaling to you like really listen. Yeah. Like pinning red flags. I love what you're describing of writing it down as much as I left, but it's actually brilliant in many ways because what's the crazy part?
00:46:22:13 - 00:46:44:23
Sarah Robles (SJ)
The writing part? Why not? You keep your thoughts straight. We do that in our little mental bank anyway. But one thing that is so clear to me is that what we tend to do is meet someone, and we fill in the gaps unconsciously, of course. Right. That's just what we do. And then when something contradicts something in that little memory bank that we already have into the the evidence pile of this is a good person.
00:46:45:00 - 00:47:06:18
Sarah Robles (SJ)
If something contradicts it, we don't put it in the bank of evidence. We just go like, oh, that's not true. Because he hold on, it goes in the bank, everything goes in. Pin that to where it needs to be. Remember that because you can have done all the healing and the therapy and all the stuff, healing is not going to make you immune to deception or abuse or manipulation.
00:47:06:18 - 00:47:25:12
Sarah Robles (SJ)
But what we're both talking about is all the times that we trusted ourselves just enough to take a different action. And I would actually even further say that if you don't trust, just end it like you're not missing. Trust me, I promise you, there's a million men. I promise you. Go to Walmart, swing your purse. You'll hit ten of them.
00:47:25:12 - 00:47:44:01
Sarah Robles (SJ)
It's not hard. Men are easy to find. Good men, I understand, I'm not claiming that's easy. I refer you to my raccoon sifting through trash comment. But there are good men. And honestly, as a woman who's called a mess misandrist and a man hater and bitter every day, it will never not make me laugh because I think men are amazing.
00:47:44:01 - 00:48:10:07
Sarah Robles (SJ)
I actually think more highly of men than men think of themselves, because men are constantly telling me how all men are only wants sex and all men are awful, and all men this and all men that. And then I'm not allowed to say all men anything, of course, but. Right, right. You have to just realize that you might not be able to guarantee you're not going to meet another abusive person, but you need to practice the act of self trust to know that you will make different decisions.
00:48:10:07 - 00:48:31:19
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And if you're too scared to start with dating, then don't do that. Start with friends. Start with meeting a new person or new coworker. You want to buddy up to something. Start in a smaller way, learning how to interact with people and learn about relational discernment, which is very important thing. I actually have it in an upcoming group coaching program where that'll be one of the things we teach.
00:48:31:19 - 00:48:54:03
Sarah Robles (SJ)
But relational discernment is such an important skill and I want more people to have it. I like you, I'm not a dating coach. I am not invested in whether or not people want to date. But I think the truth is, while most women I speak to are terrified to date again, and rightly so, they still want to women.
00:48:54:07 - 00:49:17:06
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Not all because, I mean, there's a I can think of so many people right now that are like, no, never. And I believe you and I would never try to convince someone, but I'm talking to the woman who wants to, but is too scared to. And I think that's also the perfect person to read your book. You're nervous and you don't even know where the hell you could possibly start to learn how to trust yourself or trust another person.
00:49:17:06 - 00:49:43:08
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And I get it. But I really want people to obviously read your book, but like, learn that in yourself and start to trust yourself in small ways and start to take little risks in trusting other people. There's a lot of opportunity. You could hire someone to do a handyman job in your house, or trust that your friend is going to show up for you and just point out, like, I know that this person will show up for me because they just did.
00:49:43:08 - 00:50:06:02
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And that goes into my evidence bank that some people can be trusted. Yeah. And keep going. Yeah, it's it is a risk. And you know, if you stick it out, it's it's a risk worth taking. And I think you'll learn a lot about yourself through it. Again, healing doesn't just end with you. It's we are social creatures. We are, by design, meant to connect.
00:50:06:02 - 00:50:25:04
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And you don't want to. You don't want to hand that to someone that broke that like that. That doesn't belong to them. Your love. Love is the greatest thing. Like it is real. It is out there. And when you can find it, like the reward that comes with that is great. And I again, I'm surprised that this is even coming out of my mouth even today.
00:50:25:05 - 00:50:43:21
Sarah Robles (SJ)
Like I I'm surprised by this whole book. I wrote most of it just sitting in my garage where I hide to think, and I was reflecting on all the different dates, all the different epiphanies and realizations that I had as a survivor going through this. And one thing that I want to remind people is we're so good.
00:50:43:22 - 00:50:59:22
Sarah Robles (SJ)
We're so good at talking about the harm, the manipulation and the abuse. Right? We talk about it a lot because it's interesting to figure out, like, wow, these people exist. Like, why do they do this? Why are they doing this to me? But the thing that I want to see us talk more about is, is the hope core, right?
00:50:59:23 - 00:51:21:03
Sarah Robles (SJ)
The hope core for people who have gone through abuse, who have recognized that they still long to find love, and they're going to be brave. Now it is. You know, being brave doesn't mean you don't feel fear. You feel fear and you still put yourself out there. Now, again, I know dating can be dangerous. Absolutely. I'm not going to deny that.
00:51:21:07 - 00:51:41:07
Sarah Robles (SJ)
But there is a way, and my book is to help you find that way and navigate looking for love after abuse. And then if you find it, if you're lucky enough to find it. How to accept love. Because I think that's the other part that's hard is like, how do I accept this now? How do I keep it here? So
00:51:41:08 - 00:51:59:06
Sarah Robles (SJ)
this is my book. I think it's really helpful for those that are navigating the aftermath. It's how do you trust yourself again? How do you put yourself out there again? How do you how do you learn to love again? Yeah, I love. That like I really do. It's such a necessary thing because it's a unique experience for people.
00:51:59:06 - 00:52:20:12
Sarah Robles (SJ)
And it's not just like how to date or you meet them on Hinge. It's the internal work, because that's at the end of the day. Like that's what we need is the internal work. Some of it is just learning that your discomfort matters and new information matters. You're allowed to slow down. You're allowed to vet someone, not just date someone you're dating through vetting or vetting through dating.
00:52:20:12 - 00:52:44:09
Sarah Robles (SJ)
It matters. So thank you so much. I'm so I'm so happy we had this conversation. Thank you for being here. Where can people find you? Yes, you can find me on TikTok and Instagram is where I live these days. And also you can reach out to my website which my in my bio on TikTok, I have my website, so if you want to ever work with me one on one or talk to me more about your situation, you can connect with me there. Absolutely and
00:52:44:09 - 00:52:52:02
Sarah Robles (SJ)
definitely everybody check out her book on Amazon Finding Love After Abuse. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you.
00:52:52:04 - 00:53:01:19
Lisa Sonni
If this episode gave you clarity. Share it with someone who needs it. Thanks for being here and for being honest with yourself. And remember, you're stronger than before.
00:53:01:21 - 00:53:05:00
Music
Stronger than before.